Overland Models

[wcfn100]

Really? Then that is... or was... news, at least to me. That would have been quite a departure from their usual.

I would really love it if I could find the thread I'm thinking of.

Still searching.

Jason

[ljudice]

Guys,  I think you're thinking of the Overland Tower 55 Product line - which was sold to Athearn - HO Only.

The idea was to do "as good as brass in plastic".   Which just about tells you what Overland's problem is.  And if I recall, Tower 55 was a debacle
because the HO rivet counters became suspicious when it turned out Overland was cutting some corners on some models, with impassioned
postings by the owners on Trainorders (which is where they posted). 

Right, the last N project I believe were Gensets and some cabooses.  I don't even think they planned to do the NS stuff...

BTW I have the highest respect for OMI - and wish they would do some thing like a Rail Grinder or something (that I could afford!!!)

But even their cool Jordan Spreaders could be done by Wheels of Time (given their ability to do the complex Piggypackers)  today for 20% of the price (I bet)...


- Lou

[C855B]

I was combing Overland's newsletter archives for the N scale mea culpa, but was unsuccessful. However I did find the announcement for the Gensets in the May 2007 issue: http://www.overlandmodels.com/news/?m=200705 . It accompanied an announcement for an N scale GN W-1 electric. That would definitely have been cool. I have no need for one, but a nice prototype nonetheless.

This issue was the last mention of N scale, at least in their archives. If there was anything later than 5/2007, it was expunged.

EDIT: It was noted that the W-1 was to be produced by Ajin; don't know about the Gensets. There was a newsletter entry about a year later announcing that Ajin was going out business and Overland was developing another source. I suspect losing Ajin, who at least had some N experience, was the final blow for N development.

[bbussey]

The New Haven FL-9 was canceled within the last five years.  That's the last time I was looking forward to an Overland offering.

I have one of the Jordan Spreaders, painted and decaled for Conrail, from when they were first released years ago.  Overland did an excellent job on them.  While there is no doubt that the prototype could be replicated in N scale plastic today for a fraction of the cost, that was far from the case a couple of decades ago when this brass model was imported.

[peteski]

. There was a newsletter entry about a year later announcing that Ajin was going out business and Overland was developing another source. I suspect losing Ajin, who at least had some N experience, was the final blow for N development.

I didn't know that Ajin was gone.  They were (at least partially) responsible for all the recent Model Power steamers (at least the label on their motors, IIRC,  said "manufactured by Mashima for Ajin of Korea"). I suspect that those complete models were made by Ajin.  ANd Model Power recently released another run of some of those models.

I also spied some Ajin labels inside of some European N-scale steamers from Hobbytrain/Lemke.

[C855B]

My bad... that was half of the story, which is here: http://www.overlandmodels.com/news/?m=200806

"Ajin Precision Manufacturing" was indeed closed, but apparently key principals assumed operations under "Ajin Model Train". One of those "same, but not the same" sort of things, I think.

[wcfn100]

Guys,  I think you're thinking of the Overland Tower 55 Product line - which was sold to Athearn - HO Only.

Nope, this was this year and N scale.

But until I can find it, take it for what it's worth.

Jason

[delamaize]

Wait, Overland was making N scale stuff again? News to me......

[wcfn100]

Okay I found it.  It wasn't OMI but a company called Korea Brass.  They put feelers out for a couple N scale items that despite the company name, would be plastic.

Sorry for the confusion.

As for OMI, maybe they were tired of getting asked about cancelled projects (or re-running ones like the Little Joe) and are just clearing the decks.

Jason

[jlong]

High end precision crafted brass N scale is a tough call. It commands a lot of money for detail that is difficult for a good number of people to see and appreciate due to its small size. Yes I know a good number of us don't go by the 3ft rule and appreciate the detail but we are a minority. A good number of brass buyers are shelf collectors. N scale doesn't make a lot of sense in that respect.

[sirenwerks]

Overland who?

I have to agree.  If Overland was making N scale models it did a crappy job of advertising or promoting that fact.  One can not buy what one does not know exists.  Maybe it tagged its N scale promo onto the tail end of its HO ads, but once I see HO in an ad I stop reading, unless there's an "N scale" blaring out somewhere else.  Not too mention that Overland's price line is not on par with the the price of the fine injection molded models being released these days.  The catch-22 for N scale is we have these great plastic models of generic locos but no details to un-generic them.  Maybe Overland should go into the N scale detail parts business instead - it produced details anyway, so the idea's not far off its product line.

[C855B]

It is sort of a shame that Overland didn't help their cause by scaling down their HO approach to drivetrains, which IMO is key to why N brass has such a bad rep for poor operability. The one Overland loco I have is their first version of the UP Centennial, which I do believe was their first offering in N. Mechanism is awful, transmission from motor to gear tower the weak link. One end is U-joints, the other end was originally a hunk of tubing. It's been on my bench for two or three years, as I periodically get inspired to try - and then fail - rebuilding the drive with NWSL parts. Next try will require cutting brass, which I'm reluctant to do since I'd then have to write-off the value.

It was a very nice model 20 years ago, albeit a shelf queen. The current rendition of the prototype by Bachmann is a better model, acknowledging that both have their own fidelity issues... plus the Bachmann runs flawlessly. What I probably need to do is just make molds of the Overland truck sideframes to cast retrofits for the Bachmanns, the trucks the biggest fidelity issue, and then put the Overland model up on eBay. 

[robert3985]

I haven't had problems with my Overland brass N-scale engines.  Yup...the Centennials ran slow, but they ran okay, and my GTEL's ran great

However, my Overland brass U.P. cabooses took some work to get them to roll fairly well.  Some of the guys who bought them just replaced the trucks with plastic, non-prototypical MTL trucks, but I wasn't willing to do that.  Yeah, they still don't roll all that well, but they eliminate the slinky effect by dragging the whole train and since I run a maximum 9' 7" long train, it's not a problem for me.

I actually had a conversation with the owner of Overland a couple of years back (I can't remember his name) when he was fishing for N-scale ideas.  I offered that he should produce U.P. Baby and Veranda Turbines, both with and without tenders and with different paint for as-delivered and later modified configurations.  He seemed to think that was a good idea, and I would have bought three of each had he done so.

I also criticized the cast-on grabs and hurky cast walkways (instead of etched) on the GTELs, saying that when I pay over $800 for an engine, I don't want to see obvious cost-cutting measures.  He agreed.

The move toward producing modern N-scale brass locomotives was a wrong marketing move IMHO, and evidently N-scale sales didn't meet expectations, which is too bad.

Guess I'm gonna just have to make my own Baby and Veranda turbines appropriate for my era and location.

Here's some photos of some of my out-of-era Centennials and GTEL's, which I have sold off in the last two years.  Sad to see 'em go, but they didn't fit my era.

Overland Centennials on Echo Curve modified and painted by me:


Overland Centennials in Wilhemina Pass at "The Monument" on my old Ntrak module LDE with an Overland caboose on the west-bound main.


Overland Centennial 6913 on Park City Branch, Closeup:


A gathering of Overland GTEL Super Turbines at Echo Yard:


Overland GTEL pulling a reefer block heading east at Echo Curve:


And finally, a representative Overland U.P. Caboose, CA-5 in "pool" configuration, pure stock except for my paint.  Nice models and I still have a bunch of 'em:


Sad to see Overland give up on N-scale.  I really enjoyed their U.P. models.

[Denver Road Doug]

Even if the focus was on limited-demand and unusual models, the development costs alone would still outstrip the per-unit value, and the end result would be a model of lesser-quality detail than mass-produced plastic at a price no reasonable person would pay.

I dunno...that's easy to say for something like an SD70ACe since there is a high likelihood of someone producing a much better quality model in plastic.   But I think stuff like specific cabooses, or especially business cars...well that's stuff that you probably will never see in plastic so I think there might be a market.   (and of course there's always an exception, like the recent Kato Kobo "Gerald Grinstein" BNSF Business Car, but it had a very brass-esque price tag too.)   That and MOW stuff maybe, and esoteric but "pop-culture famous" locos and freight cars, etc.  (think PRR, Milw, et al)   While I personally would probably never spend the money versus kitbashing something, I think there has to be a market given the ever increasing popularity of RTR.   I think maybe Overland just kinda gave up at the wrong time, combined with not picking the best candidates.  (I'd say the potential for Atlas releasing Gensets probably killed that market)

"Look Models" was following that path I believe, but they did not establish themselves as a quality manufacturer before throwing in the towel.   What little I heard of them was good, but that reputation had to grow and mature and they didn't have the stomach for it apparently.   They are a textbook case of not marketing their product well at all.

Anyway, I don't disagree that it's a "tough row to hoe", and "brass" models as a category may not even make sense anymore.   I think as time goes by there won't really be that clear differentiation....it will just be a "model", made up of injection plastic pieces and resin pieces and brass details, rapid prototype this and laser cut that, and who knows what other technology or material.

[GaryHinshaw]

Pardon my ignorance, but did Overland ever make steam in either HO or N?  That still seems like the obvious, and most profitable, niche for brass.  Does anyone make N scale steam in brass today?