Train Length

[kelticsylk]

I'm trying to figure out how many cars can be used in a train on my layout. The yard tracks dictate the length of my trains and I'm thinking 20-30 cars although some tracks can hold more. That side of the layout is 15' long and I think my average track length is 12'...

Each square is 12"

When I checked some tonnage ratings for Pennsy engines I found that an M1 was rated for 3200 tons up the east slope (Altoona to Gallitzin) with two I1s helpers. Going up the west slope (Connemaugh to Gallitzin) the ratinng was 3700 tons with one I1s pushing. If I'm understanding this correctly 3200 tons is about 20-24 cars weighing about 140-150 tons loaded. That sounds perfect for what I'm doing.

Am I anywhere near correct? I don't know how to calculate traction effort equals tonnage rating (minus or plus whatever fudge factors the PRR used in its ratings).

Regards,
Frank Musick

[cv_acr]

I'm no Pennsy expert, but I think the locos you referenced are steam engine classes?

In that era, most freight cars were ~50 ton capacity, with bigger cars running up to 70-90 tons. 100-ton capacity cars weren't really a thing yet.

So let's say ~50-60 tons average for loads + ~20 tons for the car itself, that's still way less than 100ton per car (loaded), so even a train with every car fully loaded like a heavy coal drag would max out at more like 40+ on the prototype. All empties or a mix, and that number could be higher.

Of course things scale down a bit on the model, (i.e. space constraints on the layout) so ~25 cars on the model might be an alright representation.

[chicken45]

I remember reading something about Pennsy using LD tenders on "hippos helpers" for pushing up the slope, and only for pushing up the slope. I don't remember why, though.


Josh Surkosky

[Cajonpassfan]

Frank, 12' sidings and trains won't look like much on an N Trak layout in a giant exhibit hall, but they are very very respectable for a home layout, especially for a steam era railroad and its relatively short era-appropriate cars. Everything else you will do will be compressed, so the train length compression wouldn't bother me one bit. 12' sidings with 30 plus cars, head end power, and two pushers will look awesome. I run with 10-12 sidings na scant get enough  A bigger question would be where are you going to get that M1 and the Hippos ...   
Good luck, Otto K.

[kelticsylk]

I have run 20 or so cars in a train around the layout and it looks impressive, especially a coal drag running 10 mph. Takes forever for a train that long and slow to go past and it seems longer that it really is. I have to agree that throwing a helper or two on the rear would add a lot to the illusion.

A bit off my own topic but I think I might be getting an I1s for Christmas (not that I helped my wife find one  ). It's one of those Trix halfbreeds with the boiler already moved to match the steam pipes and what look like Z scale MT couplers (not that I've already seen it  ).

I have some ideas for an M1 but nothing concrete yet.

[Hornwrecker]

I have to figure out a how many hoppers I can fit with a shark ABBA and cabin car on my new, staging track (7 ft) once I pick up some more flex and a few rerailers.  I'm not sure I even own six feet long string of hoppers. 

[pennsyfan1361]

I read in Model Railroader a while back that a 10 foot train appears to be a long train for most home layouts because you are standing close to the train and most times you can't see the whole train in a glance.     Rich   

[robert3985]

Impressive enough?  Same place, different altitude...same length trains...35 30 cars, app. 9' 7.5" length trains...Which looks longer?

[SD452XR]

Impressive enough?  Same place, different altitude...same length trains...35 cars, app. 9' 7.5" length trains...Which looks longer?

Beautiful!

[jnevis]

Just became the background image on my work computer

[wm3798]

Your yard tracks shouldn't be the determining factor, your passing sidings and staging tracks will be more important. 



Your yard tracks are for classifying blocks of cars, not for storing whole trains. 
As for what does (did) the prototype do, that's a non-issue.  The prototype had traffic flow and service issues as well as infrastructure that determined train lengths.  On a model railroad, the chief considerations should be "what looks right" and "what works".

In other words, you may have built a 12' siding, but if you have a tight curve on a grade, odds are your 12' long N scale train will end up all over the ground, or if you have a steeper than prototype climb, you'll need more engines to pull and push than would look prototypical.

I built my track plan around a train length of 20-25 cars.  Since the scenery is pretty compact, and there's lots of scene dividers, this worked out just fine.

Hope this makes sense.
Lee

[jdcolombo]

Train length generally should be governed by passing-siding length.  I generally figure on 3.5" per 40' boxcar, including coupling distance (e.g., 3.5" over the coupler faces; that's actually a tad long in most cases, so you have a built-in fudge factor).   I have 100-inch sidings on my home layout, and I can fit a 25-car train of 40' cars, caboose, and a Berkshire steam loco on the siding while still easily clearing the switches at each end.   My yard tracks are actually a lot longer, to give the yard operators flexibility to park cuts of cars as needed.

I've generally found that an 8' consist is where things begin to look prototypically "long" for me; don't know exactly why, but I've played around with this some, and 7 1/2 feet doesn't cut it, while 8' does.  10' would be even better, and should easily accommodate a 30-car train of mixed car lengths (e.g., some 50's) or a 35-car train of 40' cars.  A 12' siding would provide more than enough room for a 10' train with clearance to the switches on each end.

John C.

[C855B]

Actually, I think it's the fourth or fifth bottle of Rolling Rock (right center) that helps with the trains seeming to be longer than they really are. Beer goggles for trains.

[Philip H]

THAT's where i left it when I set it down!   

[Cajonpassfan]

Impressive enough?  Same place, different altitude...same length trains...35 cars, app. 9' 7.5" length trains...Which looks longer?

Bob, great photos, and great modeling. I don't understand the math though; my 35 car train, with hill power and caboose is substantially longer that 9.625".... Are you just referring to the length of 35 car cut of 40' cars only?
Regards, Otto