Handlaying turnouts

[packers#1]

So since turnouts cost an arm and a leg, and I like having all my limbs, I really want to start handlaying turnouts (and regular track, although I've read that it really is about the same cost as flex). Problem is, I have literally zero experience, and am not sure where to begin. I have picked up a little bit, like using PC Board ties and solder. I do have some Radioshack soldering tools (Iron, rosin-core solder, and their paste flux). I also have an NMRA standards gauge, along with some time after I get home from school where I could squeeze in some turnout building.
So my major question is, does anyone have good articles, websites, etc for handlaying turnouts? I know Gary's Tehachapi, BC thread has an extensive part of turnout building. I'd also appreciate any advice etc. Please help me keep my limbs!

[dowish]

I have zero experience handlaying turnouts, so take this for what its worth, but I would start by browsing the Fast Tracks website, http://www.handlaidtrack.com/ or looking on You Tube for some video tutorials.  I'm also sure if you search this site, you'll find lots of good advice.

[nkalanaga]

If you want the appearance of well maintained track, you're better off using flex track.  Laying your own my be a little cheaper, but it's very hard to get it as neat as the commercial stuff.

On the other hand, handlaying turnouts is definitely cheaper than buying them, and you can control the tolerances better.  If you don't want to buy the fixtures, for whatever reason, my advice would be to invest in some 1x4 or similar sized pine boards.  Build a few turnouts there for practice, until you feel comfortable, then start laying your track.  If you like, you can also build your own fixtures with stripwood and pins and build all of your turnouts at the workbench.

In my case, I bought most of mine, and handlaid the oddities.  As most of these were one of a kind, and many were dual gauge, it was easier to build them ahead of time, in a place where I had good access from all angles.

[CoalPorter]

Somewhere out there, you can print paper templates and use those to build over.
A local club built all their TOs that way, and they even just glued them down while
still stuck to the templates.

[M.C. Fujiwara]

Watch this series of videos from Evret:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL39AF9D2D08FCF4EA&feature=plcp

Takes all the mystery out of handlaying turnouts.
(just substitute a fasttracks template for the computer-generated one Evret uses)

Welcome to the handlay club!

[bill pearce]

Handlaid turnouts aren't rocket science. The Fasttracks are good, and produce good results, but you can do just as well without them. There have been several articles on scratchbuillding them that explain in detail what you need to do, without the jigs. All of them are good (especially the one I wrote), but I recommend reading all of them and oicking the best techniques. All have slight differences (In mine, I describe tinning the underside of the rail, putting a dot of paste flux on the PC tie, and using the tweezer tool of the resistance solderer to make a quick, easily adjustable joint.) There is only one thing I can recommend that I will stand firm on. Don't try to build one with a pencil iron. It can be done, but not as clean and easy as with the resistance tweezer tool. You can pay for one with what you save over factory turnouts, and then have it for other things. I built three practice turnouts and I was ready to go. I could build a turnout in less than a half hour. I made yard ladders with continous rails, not separate turnouts spliced together. Nothing else runs the same.

Bill Pearce

[packers#1]

I have zero experience handlaying turnouts, so take this for what its worth, but I would start by browsing the Fast Tracks website, http://www.handlaidtrack.com/ or looking on You Tube for some video tutorials.  I'm also sure if you search this site, you'll find lots of good advice.

Thanks, I have done a bit of that, including the fast tracks browsing. I also like the proto:87 n scale kits, might get some at first.

If you want the appearance of well maintained track, you're better off using flex track.  Laying your own my be a little cheaper, but it's very hard to get it as neat as the commercial stuff.

On the other hand, handlaying turnouts is definitely cheaper than buying them, and you can control the tolerances better.  If you don't want to buy the fixtures, for whatever reason, my advice would be to invest in some 1x4 or similar sized pine boards.  Build a few turnouts there for practice, until you feel comfortable, then start laying your track.  If you like, you can also build your own fixtures with stripwood and pins and build all of your turnouts at the workbench.

In my case, I bought most of mine, and handlaid the oddities.  As most of these were one of a kind, and many were dual gauge, it was easier to build them ahead of time, in a place where I had good access from all angles.

I may hand-lay all track on a small industrial switching layout based on part of the Pike City Belt Line plan, since it would be less-well-maintained and would give me more experience, but I do plan to continue with flextrack for most track. I also don't want to invest in the fast tracks jigs, although paper templates sound good; I need a good source for stripwood, as building my own jig would be pretty cool too.

Somewhere out there, you can print paper templates and use those to build over.
A local club built all their TOs that way, and they even just glued them down while
still stuck to the templates.

Sweet, like I said above, sounds like the direction I would prefer

Watch this series of videos from Evret:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL39AF9D2D08FCF4EA&feature=plcp

Takes all the mystery out of handlaying turnouts.
(just substitute a fasttracks template for the computer-generated one Evret uses)

Welcome to the handlay club!

Thanks, I'll check those out after me and my dad get the plywood cut for the subfloor in our kitchen (hooray water damage!)

Handlaid turnouts aren't rocket science. The Fasttracks are good, and produce good results, but you can do just as well without them. There have been several articles on scratchbuillding them that explain in detail what you need to do, without the jigs. All of them are good (especially the one I wrote), but I recommend reading all of them and oicking the best techniques. All have slight differences (In mine, I describe tinning the underside of the rail, putting a dot of paste flux on the PC tie, and using the tweezer tool of the resistance solderer to make a quick, easily adjustable joint.) There is only one thing I can recommend that I will stand firm on. Don't try to build one with a pencil iron. It can be done, but not as clean and easy as with the resistance tweezer tool. You can pay for one with what you save over factory turnouts, and then have it for other things. I built three practice turnouts and I was ready to go. I could build a turnout in less than a half hour. I made yard ladders with continous rails, not separate turnouts spliced together. Nothing else runs the same.

Bill Pearce

Bill, thanks; I do ahve an MR from Feb. 1976 with two articles on handlaying T/O, but they're both frogless and are difficult to follow. What magazine is your article in? I would love to get a chance to read it.
Where can I find one of the resistance tweezer irons? I could probably ask for one for Christmas, but in the meantime at least start with the pencil iron

Thank you for the replies so far, they've been most helpful!

[Dave Schneider]

Sawyer,

I hope that his is the year that you have been especially NICE if you want a resistance soldering iron under the Christmas tree. They are $400 and up.
http://www.micromark.com/resistance-soldering-equipment.html

I wish I could buy one of these without my wife knowing about it!

Best wishes, Dave

[GaryHinshaw]

I don't have much specific how-to advice to add;  I think the articles and videos that have been mentioned are great places to start. I'll just add a few random thoughts based on my recent experience (some of it as recent as today!):

* Avoid the Fast Tracks jigs.  They are wonderfully machined parts, but they are expensive and they act as a big heat sink, making it very difficult to get a good solder joint.  (I suspect they work better in HO, where a larger iron tip can be used.)  Building over a template is a great way to go, and both the Fast Tracks and proto:87 stores have a wide range of sizes posted as PDFs.

* If you are trying to save money, you should probably also avoid the proto:87 parts.  I really like them for the precision and convenience they afford, but I end up paying close to Atlas code 55 prices for each turnout, and I still have to assemble it... (but I like the finished product).

* Again, if you are trying to save money, you should forego the resistance soldering unit.  I don't disagree with Bill that it's a great tool that will give you great results, and will probably last you a lifetime, but you can get satisfactory results without it.

* If you end up fashioning your own frogs and points, the Fast Tracks frog & point filing tools are handy.  They are pretty expensive though, and you need a separate one for each number of turnout you build, so you should start out trying a build without them.

* Finally, having just spent the better part of 4-5 hours yesterday building *one* turnout, (and it's still not quite done)  my hats off to anyone who can build one in under an hour!  It takes me close to an hour just to cut, lay, and paint the wood ties, then cut and gap the PC ties.  Then I'm ready to "start" the build.   You should budget quite a bit of time for this task, at least in the beginning.  You should also expect some frustrations along the way because some times you'll wish you had an extra limb or two to keep things lined up while you build. 

But by all means go for it and see if it's for you.

-gfh

[jagged ben]

I've built a few turnouts with the Fastrack jigs and tools.  (They belong to the club, my money didn't pay for them.)   I don't particularly agree with Gary about them serving as a problematic heat sink (they are aluminum) and I can build a turnout in under an hour with them.  (So there Gary!   That's your answer.  )

Otherwise I agree with what he and others have said in this thread. 

One big problem with the Fastrack jigs for N scale is that there aren't enough slots for PC ties near the points.  You need more soldered ties in N to withstand the repeated pressure of a Tortoise being thrown.  I recommend putting at least two PC ties on each side of the throwbar, and three  couldn't hurt.

[bill pearce]

You can download the templates form the proto 87 site in HO, N and (!) Z. They're easy to use, but plan on using a fresh one for each turnout. Check them carefully when you print as some printer silll change the size.

Sawyer, I think it was in RMJ, but not sure. All my copies are in storage, so it will be some time before I can find out. The first one I remember was in N Scale, but there were elements that I found unsatisfactory.

Bill

[bill pearce]

Ben,

Excellent point. Do the jigs also allow for enough PC ties where you want them to gap the frog?

Bill

[Scottl]

I'm just starting a proto87 code 55 #8 turnout.  The parts are tiny but it all looks well done and I think it is mostly clear.  No gapping is needed as the frog is a separate casting (sandwich of etched parts).  I'm getting some ME rail, solder and track gauges to complete my kit and should start soon. The proto87 printouts have a scale bar on them to measure in order to make sure your printer did not re-scale. 

[packers#1]

Sawyer,

I hope that his is the year that you have been especially NICE if you want a resistance soldering iron under the Christmas tree. They are $400 and up.
http://www.micromark.com/resistance-soldering-equipment.html

     yeah . . . that won't happen; one more reason to go with studying Engineering at Clemson 

* Avoid the Fast Tracks jigs. Building over a template is a great way to go, and both the Fast Tracks and proto:87 stores have a wide range of sizes posted as PDFs.

* If you are trying to save money, you should probably also avoid the proto:87 parts.  I really like them for the precision and convenience they afford, but I end up paying close to Atlas code 55 prices for each turnout, and I still have to assemble it... (but I like the finished product).

* Again, if you are trying to save money, you should forego the resistance soldering unit.  I don't disagree with Bill that it's a great tool that will give you great results, and will probably last you a lifetime, but you can get satisfactory results without it.

* If you end up fashioning your own frogs and points, the Fast Tracks frog & point filing tools are handy.  They are pretty expensive though, and you need a separate one for each number of turnout you build, so you should start out trying a build without them.

* Finally, having just spent the better part of 4-5 hours yesterday building *one* turnout, (and it's still not quite done)  my hats off to anyone who can build one in under an hour!  It takes me close to an hour just to cut, lay, and paint the wood ties, then cut and gap the PC ties.  Then I'm ready to "start" the build.   You should budget quite a bit of time for this task, at least in the beginning.  You should also expect some frustrations along the way because some times you'll wish you had an extra limb or two to keep things lined up while you build. 

But by all means go for it and see if it's for you.

-gfh

Gary, I did manage to find that part of your thread, and am planning on avoiding the jigs; I can make a template work (I hope)
I think with the right flux/solder, I can make the soldering iron I have right now work; or I may get a new one from Radioshack that I can make work better.
P:87 point taken; fast tracks will hopefully have the stuff I need then. I'm not sure about fashioning points/frogs yet, I'd like to start a few with pre-made frogs at the least.
The amount of time sounds great to me really, because I do actually enjoy laying track and soldering it all together.

I've built a few turnouts with the Fastrack jigs and tools.  (They belong to the club, my money didn't pay for them.)   I don't particularly agree with Gary about them serving as a problematic heat sink (they are aluminum) and I can build a turnout in under an hour with them.  (So there Gary!   That's your answer.  )

Otherwise I agree with what he and others have said in this thread. 

One big problem with the Fastrack jigs for N scale is that there aren't enough slots for PC ties near the points.  You need more soldered ties in N to withstand the repeated pressure of a Tortoise being thrown.  I recommend putting at least two PC ties on each side of the throwbar, and three  couldn't hurt.

Sounds good, but I'd rather try the templates first; less investment, can still work.Thanks for the advice about ties around the throwbars.

You can download the templates form the proto 87 site in HO, N and (!) Z. They're easy to use, but plan on using a fresh one for each turnout. Check them carefully when you print as some printer silll change the size.

Sawyer, I think it was in RMJ, but not sure. All my copies are in storage, so it will be some time before I can find out. The first one I remember was in N Scale, but there were elements that I found unsatisfactory.

Bill

Thanks, if you don't feel like digging back and finding the issue, no worries.

Ben,

Excellent point. Do the jigs also allow for enough PC ties where you want them to gap the frog?

Bill

Gapping the frog? What is that exactly (I'll probably find out when I watch the vids M.C. linked to, been busy fitting/refitting the plywood subfloor...I'm too young to have back issues  )

I'm just starting a proto87 code 55 #8 turnout.  The parts are tiny but it all looks well done and I think it is mostly clear.  No gapping is needed as the frog is a separate casting (sandwich of etched parts).  I'm getting some ME rail, solder and track gauges to complete my kit and should start soon. The proto87 printouts have a scale bar on them to measure in order to make sure your printer did not re-scale. 

Scott, sweet, I'm planning on using ME rail hopefully

One other question that will probably be answered in the vids; is there anything extra I need to do to the PC ties to keep them from shorting the rail when it's energized, or are they split down the middle to avoid shorts?

[GaryHinshaw]

Sawyer, you'll definitely learn about gapping the frog after your first build, if not before, but hopefully before...  Here is a nice page with some wiring tips:

http://www.proto87.com/turnout-wiring-for-DCC.html

jb, my hats off to you!  I'm a slow worker, what can I say?   

-gfh

P.S. I probably needed a bigger soldering iron tip to work with the FT jig, but for a variety of reasons, I decided p87 worked better for me anyway.  I think I'll sell the jigs...