ExactRail announces addition shipping options

[babbo_enzo]

But ... this tooo :

Ed, this does indeed deserve a response.....
"Blaine" has been quite "Frank" ....

How can happen?
Sorry :9 

[daniel_leavitt2000]

I don't know what the issue some have with Exactrail. They do direct sales because the local hobby shop distribution method has shrunk much more then any of us are comfortable admitting. Why give Walthers a significant portion of your profits when they are hardly interested in N at all to begin with.


No one seemed to care that Atlas and Fox Valley seemed to use copies of under frame tooling but people go butts when ER rolls out an ASF roller bearing truck that looks like someone else's ASF roller bearing truck.

So from what I understand is that ER asked a Chibese company to supply them with trucks and this is what they got. Maybe irs the Chi ese company that used engineering plans from someone else, copied the design or simply supplied two different companies with a similar product. Who knows, and at this point

[Glenn Poole]

I don't know what the issue some have with Exactrail. They do direct sales because the local hobby shop distribution method has shrunk much more then any of us are comfortable admitting. Why give Walthers a significant portion of your profits when they are hardly interested in N at all to begin with.


No one seemed to care that Atlas and Fox Valley seemed to use copies of under frame tooling but people go butts when ER rolls out an ASF roller bearing truck that looks like someone else's ASF roller bearing truck.

So from what I understand is that ER asked a Chibese company to supply them with trucks and this is what they got. Maybe irs the Chi ese company that used engineering plans from someone else, copied the design or simply supplied two different companies with a similar product. Who knows, and at this point

Shouldn't every copy of a ASF roller bearing truck look exactly the same regardless of who it came from, because it is or can be a copy of the same original one?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I don't know what the issue some have with Exactrail. They do direct sales because the local hobby shop distribution method has shrunk much more then any of us are comfortable admitting. Why give Walthers a significant portion of your profits when they are hardly interested in N at all to begin with.

Because Walthers still provides a very valuable aggregation function. Imagine if every hobby shop or every modeler had to maintain an account with each manufacturer in their catalog. You'd never see half the stuff you do in (online or B&M) stores. This is a VERY valuable function, and is the reason I care so much about the issue.

No one seemed to care that Atlas and Fox Valley seemed to use copies of under frame tooling but people go butts when ER rolls out an ASF roller bearing truck that looks like someone else's ASF roller bearing truck.

That's actually a good point. The situation with OEMs in China is really complex, and there are more facets to it than I was even aware of, which got me thinking a good bit more about it all.

Lets use a different example: machine screws. Every manufacturer of split frame locomotives uses them to hold them together. In some cases, one importer might specify a specific one that they've determined provides superior performance, but in most cases they'll just want whatever's off the shelf used.

That means that, at some point, someone paid for the tooling to make machine screws, but who owns that? It's all down to the details of contracts, and the enforceability of those contracts in the local jurisdiction.

In the industry that supports our hobby, those contracts are probably pretty opaque, and so we'll probably never know the full story on exactly who owns what.

So, perhaps I've been a bit harsh on the folks at ER.

I still wish I could fondle the waffles before buying at MBK, or I could call up Chuck and share the shipping on them with some other stuff though. I feel the same way about the BLMA pipe loads too, though.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Shouldn't every copy of a ASF roller bearing truck look exactly the same regardless of who it came from, because it is or can be a copy of the same original one?

Just to be accurate about this, because it is a confusing point. You'd think so, but every model is an interpretation (for example, look at the Bachmann vs Atlas C40-8s) of the real object, but in reality it's not the case, because each individual designer has different techniques and makes different decisions when converting something that's a couple thousand pounds of steel into something plastic that can sit on the tip of your finger.

[Dave V]

Blaine, I just wanna tell you that I'd like to thank Samantha for her email in regards to a military discount.  Hopefully I can get some money together before the discount that ends at the end of the month comes and goes...if not, maybe you guys could do something for us?

Oh, I wish I'd known about the military discount before I bought my waffle!

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Well now that you know, you can get a deal on your blue one!

[babbo_enzo]

Imagine if every modeler had to maintain an account with each manufacturer in their catalog.

And... ( I'm sure overseas hobbyst are a nich market in therms of volume for these manufacturers ... ) consider that if I order two N scale cars for 2x $19.00 ... this will cost me more or less additional $30 to ship here.... plus domestic VAT! I consider me as lucky that ExactRail make models out of my era!
I still consider an e-shop like MBK the best solution.

[Ike the BN Freak]

Oh, I wish I'd known about the military discount before I bought my waffle!

They don't have one...yet.

However they have a special discount code that runs until the end of the month

[pmpexpress]

And BLMA used the same made in USA reason to explain their direct sales only pipe loads. Do you really know enough about manufacturers business and financial situations to deny the validity of such statements? I certainly don't and I work for a company that outsources some of its production to China. Every company has its own unique situation.

Cheers,

Kev

Not to mention the fact that Micro-Trains Line also retails its products on its own website; after fulfilling the needs of its "authorized" dealer network, which eliminates the added costs of providing distributor discounts to firm's such as Walthers and Horizon Hobby.

Reiterating  Kev's astute comment, "Every company has its own unique situation".

[GaryHinshaw]

Because Walthers still provides a very valuable aggregation function. Imagine if every hobby shop or every modeler had to maintain an account with each manufacturer in their catalog. You'd never see half the stuff you do in (online or B&M) stores. This is a VERY valuable function, and is the reason I care so much about the issue.

I agree that aggregation is a valuable function to the consumer for the reasons you indicate.   (I'm less convinced that we need distributors and e-tailers, but that's another debate.)  But value is a quantitative thing: is it worth an extra $4-6 per car to get that convenience?  (I'm just guessing that number, of course, but ~20-25% seems in the ballpark, and it's definitely not zero.)  ER has forecast that they'd gain more customers (or lose fewer) going the cheaper but less convenient direct route.  As Blaine said, they're the ones betting their livelihood on the gamble, but I really don't think they're betting the future of the hobby on it.

FWIW, I do direct ordering from small manufacturers all the time, because that's the only way I can get some things.  N Scale Kits, Proto:87 Store, Fast Tracks, and any number of small decal manufacturers, to cite a few recent examples.  I'd love to get all those things from my LHS or FRT, but I'm not going to drop out of the hobby if I can't.

-gfh

[Dave Schneider]

FWIW, I do direct ordering from small manufacturers all the time, because that's the only way I can get some things.  N Scale Kits, Proto:87 Store, Fast Tracks, and any number of small decal manufacturers, to cite a few recent examples.  I'd love to get all those things from my LHS or FRT, but I'm not going to drop out of the hobby if I can't.

-gfh

Good point Gary. I had an experience with this issue this morning. I wanted to try the Proto:87 rail clips as an alternative to rail joiners. The part was $3.95 and shipping was $6.00. So I emailed to see if we could do this cheaper and within 20 minutes Andy from P87 offered to just send me a pack to try out. A very nice response from a company making niche products, and one that makes me much more inclined to buy from them in the future.

Best wishes, Dave

[SkipGear]

FWIW, I do direct ordering from small manufacturers all the time, because that's the only way I can get some things.  N Scale Kits, Proto:87 Store, Fast Tracks, and any number of small decal manufacturers, to cite a few recent examples.  I'd love to get all those things from my LHS or FRT, but I'm not going to drop out of the hobby if I can't.

-gfh

But none of those vendors used the hobbyshop network to get their name on the market, then yanked the product out of those same shops 2 years later. I could care less if they had done mail order only from day one. It is the way they arrived at doing mail order only that will keep me from ever owning another one of their products. I have quite a few of the Thrall gons that I bought from another LHS (other than the one I work at) and would love to have more but it's not going to happen now.

A customer of mine handed me one of the Vertapacks with the statement, "Do you want this hunk of @!#@#$? I can't get the thing to run reliably and if you don't want it, I'm throwing it in the trash." I took it for the challenge, tinkered with it at home, and after an evening of headaches, threw it away. What a POS. That was my first experience with Exactrail and without seeing those gons in person, I would have never even given them a second thought and would own zero Exactrail product.

[wcfn100]

I won't eat spinach because I worry about growing huge forearms.

Jason

[GaryHinshaw]

Fair enough Tony.  Their decision to pull back definitely stings for the dealers, no doubt.  But from where I sit, I see it more as a business response to significant cost increases in their supply chain, and less as a grand strategy to enter the market by 'using' their dealers to gain a foothold.  I can certainly understand dealer anger, but it doesn't make me personally want to boycott them.  YMMV.