Calling all brass locomotive owners!

[spookshow]

There are a number of brass locomotives that I haven't been able to purchase and test yet (too rare, too expensive, too much demand, or some combination thereof) -

Key/Samhongsa PRR I-1s 2-10-0 (1992)
Key/Samhongsa PRR j-1A 2-10-4 (2002)
Key/Samhongsa C&O T-1 2-10-4 (2002)
Key/Samhongsa PRR 2-8-0 (1988)
Key/Samhongsa SP 2-8-8-2 (2000)
Key/Samhongsa PRR Q-2 4-4-6-4 Duplex (2004)
Key/Samhongsa NYC j-3a 4-6-4 (1996)
Key/Samhongsa PRR M-1a 4-8-2 (1993)
Overland/Ajin EMD SD70ACe (2008)
Overland/Ajin Milwaukee Road "Little Joe" (2007)

However, until such time as I do manage to track them down, I'd like to at least be able to offer some sort of assessment of them in my encyclopedia in order to assist the modeling community. So, if you own (or have owned) any of the above, I'd love to hear what you think about them - general performance, technical specifications, etc. Pictures of the internals would be great as well.

Thanks!
-Mark

P.S. I know a lot of people think all brass engines are junk and like to share that opinion whenever afforded the opportunity. But please, go start your own thread if you that's all you have to offer.

[SP-Wolf]

I've got the SP AC-2 (2-8-8-2). It's been converted to DCC. So I don't know if internal picks would be good. It is one of my top runners. Let me know if you want more of an in depth review.

Wolf

[spookshow]

Thanks, Wolf. Any specifics would be great (particularly pre-DCC specifics).

-Mark

[SP-Wolf]

You're welcome- Mark,

I'll put something together and PM ya with it.

Wolf

[atsf_arizona]

Mark,

I did a photo treatise on the Key N scale Pennsylvania Q2 duplex drive 4-4-6-4 loco at the following web page, included on that web page is my assessment of the performance: 
 
URL:   http://home.comcast.net/~atsf_arizona/v20_Key_N_scale_PRR_Q-2_Duplex_4-4-6-4_6131.html





Bottom line is my sample ran smoothly, but it did have some electrical pickup 'fussy-ness', i.e. sometimes it would require a nudge to start it, or it'd lose
electrical contact briefly and required a nudge to re-start it.  It ran with better electrically continuity in reverse than in forward.  I would assume that this was a
factory tolerance deviation.... other's have said that Key locos from the same timeframe run really well.   

Just like the prototype, this loco has a rigid frame (front driver of the rear engine is a blind driver, just like the prototype).  Minimum radius absolutely was 15" (I tested that using Kato Unitrack to assure the radius was exact), anything less and the loco would bind on the curve. 

I did have Hans Starmans give me an estimation of what the electrical pickup issue was, and he basically said that the typical brass loco electrical power pickup issues affected this loco as well.   I asked what Hans would have done to fix it, and his answer was to do the normal brass loco hard-wiring and mods to resolve the electrical pickup.  At the time I didn't have the cash readily available to commission him to do that.  In the end I sold the loco to a collector.

Mark, you are welcome to borrow/copy/reference/use any of my many photos on this N scale Key Q2 photo treatise web page, as part of your N Scale Locomotive website. 

My only request is you give me credit as the author of the above Key Q2 photos and for that web site.  Thx!

[spookshow]

Thanks John, much appreciated. The PRR 4-4-6-4 is definitely one of the brass steamers that I'm unlikely to ever acquire for myself (given their scarcity, I imagine if one were to ever show up on eBay it would sell for several times its original retail price).

I'm kind of surprised to hear that yours has electrical/drawbar issues; I thought Samhongsa finally got that all sorted out by sticking two stiff wires on the drawbar instead of just one.

-Mark

[David Leonard]

My own Q2 suffered from electrical pickup issues as well, but I discovered that the cuplprit was non-obvious poorly laid track. Now it runs fine, although it no longer fits in with the design of my layout.  I haven't yet even put an MTL coupler on it, so I cannot talk about pulling power, etc.

[eric220]

David, if it doesn't fit in with your layout and you ever consider getting rid of it, let me know!

[atsf_arizona]

My own Q2 suffered from electrical pickup issues as well, but I discovered that the cuplprit was non-obvious poorly laid track. Now it runs fine, although it no longer fits in with the design of my layout.  I haven't yet even put an MTL coupler on it, so I cannot talk about pulling power, etc.

For what it's worth, the Q2 that I had came with a Micro-Trains coupler on the rear.



The front of the brass model Q2 has the Pennsy drop coupler, so unless one removed that, this loco would not be double-headed (which was OK, the
Q2s were so powerful ...)



As for the loco-tender power pickup, here's picture:





And while perhaps just re-tensioning the two wires might have solved the issue, my light tinkering with those wires
didn't solve the electrical pickup problem, so I didn't pursue it any further.   

All the above photos, and many more, are on the web site, click on the thumbnails at that web site to see the bigger picture:   http://home.comcast.net/~atsf_arizona/v20_Key_N_scale_PRR_Q-2_Duplex_4-4-6-4_6131.html


At Louisville N scale convention (that's where I'd bought the loco at the N Scale Collector's auction because no one was bidding on it), we had the N scale Key Q2 running a little bit on the  big NTrak layout.  It was pulling a decent sized train (20 or so cars without any strain) so while I don't know exactly how much pulling power  it has, it was heavy and certainly didn't seem under-powered.  But.... it did somewhat frequently stop and need a nudge to start it again, at least
on the Ntrak layout.   When it did run it ran very smoothly.  So I would suggest rating it's running quality as 'probably pretty good after doing some electrical pickup tuning'.

I have a video of this loco running on a Kato Unitrack test loop with 15" radius curves, here, it ran smoothly due to the Unitrack.  If you want to see it run, the video is 32MB in size, but if you want to see that, here is a Dropbox link which will download the big 32MB .MOV file (Quicktime) to your computer:       

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14355318/Q2_N_scale_movie_32MB.mpg

(I probably should have just uploaded it to YouTube and let YouTube shrink it to a reasonable size.... but out of time right now)...

You'll be able to see how long this loco is and how much overhang there is on the 15" curves.  Enjoy.

[nstars]

There are a number of brass locomotives that I haven't been able to purchase and test yet (too rare, too expensive, too much demand, or some combination thereof) -

Key/Samhongsa PRR I-1s 2-10-0 (1992)
Key/Samhongsa PRR j-1A 2-10-4 (2002)
Key/Samhongsa C&O T-1 2-10-4 (2002)
Key/Samhongsa PRR 2-8-0 (1988)
Key/Samhongsa SP 2-8-8-2 (2000)
Key/Samhongsa PRR Q-2 4-4-6-4 Duplex (2004)
Key/Samhongsa NYC j-3a 4-6-4 (1996)
Key/Samhongsa PRR M-1a 4-8-2 (1993)
Overland/Ajin EMD SD70ACe (2008)
Overland/Ajin Milwaukee Road "Little Joe" (2007)

Mark,

We have the PRR I1 with long and short tender, the PRR J1, the PRR H9 and H10 2-8-0, the PRR Q2 and the PRR M1a in two versions (passenger and freight) version. My brother has worked on the NYC J-3a, but that was some time ago. One of the adjustments always made to a brass steamer is replacing the drawbar between locomotive and tender. It surprising how much difference it makes.

The J1 one is one of the best runners ever made. Especially the gear ratio is really good, much better than f.i. the Q2. The only modification will be replacing the drawbar and adding a DCC decoder.

The Q2 is also a good runner although with a gear ratio not as good as the J1. Only modifications has been replacing the drawbar and adding a DCC decoder.

The I1 locomotives are only fair runners and have problems in some curves (and we have a minimum radius of 18"). The main problem is the lack of side play of the drivers and a frame not completely straight. This explains the poor performance in some curves. FYI Both I1 have the same problem. Work on these engines will require a chassis modification, drawbar replacement, pick up improvement and DCC installation. They are both on the waiting list.

The H9 and H10 are only fair runners right out of the box and do show some difference in quality. The first we got had twisted tender trucks. We have replaced the motors in some of them, improved power pickup in tender and loco, replaced the drawbar and added decodes to all of them. Now they are all good runners.

The first M1 we got about 19 years ago and was a terrible runner. We got the 2nd M1 a couple of months ago and it is a fairly good runner, so again quite some differences. The first M1 has been mechanically completely rebuild with all wheel pickup in tender, new subchassis in the locomotive, new drawbar of course and a Tsunami in the tender. Now it's one of the best running steam engines we have and it makes a terrific noise.

Please let me know if you need more.

Marc

[mmagliaro]

I have a Key PRR 2-8-0.  I got it with a burned-out motor, so I can't comment too much on
the motor/running characteristics.  However, even after replacing the motor, electrical pickup
was spotty.   I put Kato trucks under the tender and hard-wired them forward to the motor.
After that, it ran wonderfully.  Wow, is it quiet.  t is geared fast, but can still start and run
at good slow speed.

Pulling is only moderate.   Up a 2% grade, it could only pull about 12 cars.
--------
I don't own any Key brass 2-10-0 I1, but I had an afternoon at Todd Treaster's huge layout where
someone else had brought some over.  They only ran "okay".  Thay had spotty pickup, which again,
I attribute to the drawbar springy wires, and the tender trucks.  Even when we got them
to run, they would not run all that slowly, as I recall.   We did not have any detailment issues,
but then, Todd's layout has a 30" minimum radius, so that's not a fair test.

------
That's all I can remember about the ones on your list.

[spookshow]

Thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated.

-Mark