N scale turnout build with proto:87 parts

[wcfn100]

Reviving an old but valuable thread...

Gary, do you realize N scale parts and kits have disappeared from proto87.com? I sent a note to Andy asking about it.

EDIT: Your direct link still goes to an active page, but there are no links from within the home page or catalog index.

What can't you find?  Look like its all there.

Jason

[C855B]

Gary's link at the top of this thread is to a live page for the N stuff, but, still, I couldn't find any links to it from the proto87.com main page or catalog page, or the pages they linked to. I first went to the site from having bookmarked the home page, but fortunately I recalled this thread when I couldn't find the N stuff.

Anyway, I'll see what Andy has to say about availability. I'm just planning ahead for some Code 40 work.

[wcfn100]

The three things Gary listed are on the "Simplicity" link from the catalog page.

http://www.proto87.com/handlaidtrack-supplies.html

Jason

[GaryHinshaw]

Hmm, this doesn't surprise me a bit;  Andy's web site is rather haphazard and bewildering.  My guess is that he reorganized the sidebar links and subsumed the N scale page into the "Simplicity" page, thinking that this provided a perfectly obvious path to N scale content...  The first time I ordered parts from him I had to guess if I was ordering the things I wanted because 1) I wasn't sure what I wanted based on the pictures and descriptions, and 2) even when I knew which pictured item I wanted, it was hard to tell which item on the parts list the pictured item corresponded to.   

For my second order, which I just got last week, I directly ordered frogs, points, ties, and heel block/throw-bar kits, rather than the "turnout kits", since I already have a stock of rail.  The points are scale-free, so I think those items are not at risk.  The frogs and heel block/throw-bar kits are scale-specific but, as you guys have noted, they are still available.  (The Kappler ties are scale-specific too, but they're available elsewhere.)  My second order included some code 40 parts, so I'll report on that when I get through my first c40 build.

BTW, I'm glad I wrote this up, because a month elapsed between turnout builds and I had to refer back to this thread to remember what I did...  I took some better point pictures, so I'll upload those when I have time, and I'll provide a link to Robert's throw-bar scheme too.

-gfh

[C855B]

Heard from Andy... he was in the middle of site edits when I browsed last night. N scale link is back on the catalog page.

[PJPickard]

I have a big box of parts from the Proto 87 stores that I need to get to.  Thanks for this info it will be of help.

Has anyone used the spikes Andy sells?

Also...there was a thread about someone making spikes from music wire, but I can't find it. Does anyone remember that thread(or maybe it was buried in another thread...or maybe on another forum!)

Thanks,

Paul

[GaryHinshaw]

Hi Paul, feel free to report any tips you care to share here.   I just got some spikes too, but I have not tried them, and I actually doubt I will.  I think Ed N. used them on a recent test, so he could weigh in.

Cheers,
Gary

[Andrew Hutchinson]

Paul, You might be remembering the music wire trick from Ed McCamey's postings over at the Proto:87 yahoo group or SIG newsletter. Based on Ed's work and a Peter Ross article I've used wire in conjunction with pliobond and barge cement but mostly just as an insurance policy. One other area I've found them to be of use is in laying out the rails prior to setting the contact cement. I was forever getting things wrong and having to nudge here and there to get back on even ground but since going with music wire I've been much happier with my ability to place the rail. four  out of five spike s are just straight wire driven into the wooden ties. Most of them get pulled (or driven down) after the glue is set. I use .007-.009" guitar string sunk into home made half-ties. I haven't experienced any splitting but much of what I laid rail on was preballasted. Straight spikes are cut over a styrofoam "pin cushion" and pulled out as needed. Real spikes take a little longer. I have a set of cheap cutters and it is easy enough to judge the right head width. Without a pin cushion most of what gets made gets lost. Good lighting is a must.

Andrew h

[ednadolski]

Has anyone used the spikes Andy sells?

Hi Paul, I've used the P:87 spikes for N scale on wood ties with code 40 rail on some sample track.   Visually, the result is comparable to a reduced version of classic HO scale track handlaid on wood ties with the conventional spikes.

Working with the P:87 spikes takes some effort, but is by no means impossible.  People aren't used to thinking about hand-spiking N scale track, so there is the occasional raised eyebrow.  In terms of actual work, I don't think it is any more work than spiking in any other scale.

The spikes are pretty small, so good lighting and magnification are essential.   You also need a good pliers, I've used the Xuron 450 tweezernose (non-serrated jaw).  The spikes come in two lengths; I've used the 'elongated' ones since the 'scale' ones are 6 HO scale inches and I found them hard even to pick up.  (YMMV of course )

Roadbed is kind of an open question.  I've used the birch veneer plywood as well as cork; either way spiking thru the ties seemed to hold OK.  I suspect that something like the homasote roadbed products might work, but I haven't tried them.  (I wish I could point to a few hundred feet of completed, long-standing track to back me up, but I've only dabbled in the samples.)

In my samples I didn't run into any issue with the spike heads hitting wheel flanges, but OTOH I make it a point to run reduced-flange wheels.  (I have a box full of pizza-cutter wheelsets if you want 'em)

I should mention that I'm building a shelf-like layout/diorama now, and I've decided to go with code 40 flextrack rather than the hand-spiked code 40 rail.  While I still think that nothing looks as much like a wood tie as a real wood tie,  I'm finding that once I weather the track the difference between painted flextrack ties and handlaid is hard to distinguish without magnification.  The flextrack also has the spike & tieplate details that are impractical (for me at least) to try to reproduce on handlaid tracks.

Hope that helps, let me know if I can answer any questions for you!

Ed

[PJPickard]

Thanks it WAS on the proto87 site! Thanks.
Well when I find some time I am going to tackle this. I haven't laid track since I did some HOn3 stuff, 25 years ago.

Paul

[dmidkiff]

Thanks for the writeup and pictures Gary.  I just received a turnout kit from Proto:87 that I am looking forward to assembling it.

One question for you and anyone else, I always see a reference to Pliobond glue when I read about handlaying track, is there a local place to find it?  I can't seem to find it at any of the big boxes, but have found it online.  I'd rather run down the street to the store than to buy a little bottle of glue online somewhere.  Is there an equivalent alternative that some have used?

Doug

[Philip H]

Try Michael's or Hobby Lobby - they often have such things.

[GaryHinshaw]

Try Philip's recommendation.  My experience is that it is fairly readily available in craft & hobby markets, e.g., my local LHS (Central Hobbies in Vancouver) stocks it.  A few other comments about Pliobond:

* The tips that Fast Tracks sells for the Pliobond tube are incredibly helpful for getting a neat bead on the rail base and ties.  Get them!

* I have been very happy with the performance of the glue bonds.  They are so strong that I have a hard time adjusting them after they have cured, even if I heat them up.  That said, I don't know how they hold up to  1) extreme thermal cycling (i.e. +/- 100F) especially in longer sections (2-3 ft) of rail;  2) heavy handling in modules.  But for stable and stationary applications (like my layout is designed to be) I would be pretty confident only using PC ties around the points, with wood ties/Pliobond everywhere else.

Good luck!
-gfh

[ednadolski]

The throwbar is a 2-part affair: one bar is rigidly attached to the points and pulls the closed point open, the other (which the switch machine or ground throw attaches to) pushes the open point closed.  The throwbar kit comes with etched clips that mount in the throwbar and contact the web of the point, ensuring good pressure when a point is pushed closed.   

I can't quite tell from the pics -- how is the rigid attachment made between the point rail and throw bar?  For pulling I guess it could be soldered, or use the 'hook' style clips thru a hole in the point rail (however the latter is not what I would think of as 'rigid', and I don't see much of a hole either).

Thanks,
Ed

[GaryHinshaw]

Hi Ed,

That is an old picture of how I used to fasten the points.  In that scheme, the base of the point rail was soldered to the "pulling" throwbar (the one closest to the frog) in a simple butt joint.   The etched clips on that throwbar serve no function in that assembly.  The failure of one of those joints - and the extreme difficulty of repairing it in place - prompted me to try a new scheme, which I much prefer.  I put a vertical piece of .015" PB wire in the throwbar and run it through the hole in the rail web and then solder it. (You can see the pre-drilled hole in the first photo of your post).  Here are two close-ups:




You can just barely make out the top of the PB wire in the solder blob which encapsulates the whole joint.   This makes a very robust assembly, and it's not too tricky to assemble, but it does help to make a jig to hold the parts in alignment for soldering.

Hope this answers your question…
-gfh

P.S. Eventually I will touch up the bare spots with Neolube.