D&H Rocky Mountain Empire (N-Scale) - Design Stage

[PGE_Modeller]

Just some rambling thoughts, for whatever they may be worth!  Now that you have relocated the Return Loops to the area under the helix, I would recommend giving serious thought to the idea of rehanging the door to open into the Family Room against the helix area as suggested earlier by PAL_Houston and DKS.  I have looked back through the thread but, unless I have missed it, I don't see any indication of how much separation you are planning between the upper and lower loops.  At about 16" radius, each turn of the helix is going to give a running distance of about 8 feet (+/-).  Most operators I know would prefer to see their train sooner rather than later after traversing a helix and not have it hidden behind a door for another 2 1/2 feet.  With the compressed distances that we have to accept on our model railways, every extra bit of visible track is generally a real bonus.

Cheers,

[DKS]

Concept #1 / Level #1

    The next noticeable change is in the potential bench-work by nearly eliminating the back 24" narrow aisle and a wider top aisle. In the old design I would have rounded off the corners (I too have enough bruises) but note the wider sweeping line of the edges to the center island. This concept now has close to 30"+ aisle all the way around. I have not given up on my "Canyon" but there has been changes there I will get to in another diagram.

Agree that the door should be flipped. Also, the peninsula is much too wide, leaving almost no access to the area at the end of the aisle and creating an operator bottleneck. This is a more workable arrangement:

[Stourbridge Lion]

Sorry guys; but, the door will not get flipped and also remember, there is no operators just a display case with trains running by themselves in "DC" mode.

[Stourbridge Lion]

With the bench-work adjustments here is what Track #1 might look like with the Return Loop underneath the Helix. I also show where I believe the Double Slip would need to be for this design.

I have made a few track sections BROWN where potential Bridges / Trestles would be placed. Track #1 would be the LOWER Track line so this conceptual design would stack upward from here as shown below.

If I do find I need to widen the little nook area you can see that I could easily add some straight track below it to get a bit more space by reducing the aisle on the right side that amount. I would like to keep the right aisle at 36" but I might find I have to cheat the space down a few inches to say 33" or 30"

I did look to put in an optional Reverse Loop track but the grade was too steep. It's not critical to have one in the design based on how I plan to use the layout. If I get the extra ROW space in the Family Room, I can look to put a Reverse Loop there for either Track #1 and/or Track #2.

[Stourbridge Lion]

I have looked back through the thread but, unless I have missed it, I don't see any indication of how much separation you are planning between the upper and lower loops.

Actually we are still kicking around ideas on Level #1 where Track #1 and Track #2 would both reside.  The Helix would be to get to Level #2 where Track #3 / #4 would exist.  That is why you have not seen any indication on separation between the levels yet.  My vision would be having a "DC" power train running on each track separately slowly making it's loops so the Helix is just idle and basically out of play except when I want a train to traverse between levels.

If I want to run a long train and avoid the tail chaser look I would set the Double Slip to continuous "Cross" and let a single train use Track #1 and Track #2 as one long mainline; again the Helix is just idle.  So basically, the Helix could be detached from the design which is why it's not inside the room and also why the design needs to limit the passage through the wall to be just the other edge between the existing 2x4 supports that are in the wall today.

[DKS]

Well, at the very least, even if it's just one person in the room, it's tough getting around. Plus you will have some major access issues.

At the very least, I'd consider narrowing the peninsula by folding one of the loops over the other, like this:



It adds visual interest, and offers much easier access from all sides.

[Stourbridge Lion]

David, let me come back to this after I post the rest of the diagrams I have setup that might better clarify my current thoughts.  Keep in mind, the bench-work is accessible from the Bottom/East end also and that is also a viewing area for the layout...

[Stourbridge Lion]

Now lets hide Track #1 (GREEN) for a bit and show Track #2 (BLUE) next as well as the HELIX. With the Double Slip Track (RED) in its place from above, Track #2 builds from that placement. Again since this is a planned multiple deck “DC” design, Helix traffic must be able to Enter and Exit Level #1 via a Double Helix. I believe we can squeeze in an Outer Loop using 17.50″ Radii track and thus use 16.25″ for the Inner Loop. There has been some debate as to direction of travel on a Helix so for now I will design based on the Outer as being Upward and the Inner as being Downward traffic. Given this concept, Track #2 would operate in the direction as shown which in turn dictation the diction Track#1 took. Like with Track #1, Track #2 will have its Return Loop under the Helix and Track #2 would also be the touch point to/from the Helix. So, here is how Track #2 might look on Level #1.

[Stourbridge Lion]

Putting these two track plan diagrams together (below) now shows the track plan concept of Level #1.  The Inner part of the Helix will need to make extra rotations downward so the track can pass under both the ramp toward the Outer as well as the Return Loop for Track #2.  One can now trace the train path where two trains can operate independent on separate tracks, a single train can operate over both tracks using the Double Slip, and a train using Track #2 and optionally Exit/Enter Level #1 via the Helix.

[Stourbridge Lion]

As stated earlier, Level #2 needs to be supported and in this design would be done using two 4″ wide View Blocks where supports can be raised from the interior where wall supports can’t reach.  My roughed Rocky Mountain scenery also needs a canyon.  My initial plan was to have a thin aisle but folks have made be rethink that; so, I moved it to the Bottom / East section where a viewer would look downward over Track #2 (BLUE) to Track #1 (GREEN) and use the View Block as the far side of the canyon wall with a river passing between the tracks.   One could also view the canyon from the Right/North side lengthwise.  Another View Block would extend perpendicular to support the remained of center section of the bench-work.  Again this being a roughed Rocky Mountain scenery, Tunnels will be a plenty.  To hide the Heavy Track of the Double Slip area it would be hidden (with removal access) via say a simple say old-time Depot / Water Tank often found in remote areas.  Also in these deep /remote roughed Rocky Mountain it was not uncommon for tracks to loop back under themselves using Tunnels and/or Bridges and having to cross water ways forged by White Water and Waterfalls

So, feedback on this alteration of Concept #1 for Level #1

[MichaelWinicki]

Thanks for putting the view-blocks in!

It makes it easier to understand what you're trying to accomplish.

Interesting plan.

Having all that hidden trackage via tunnels and what-not could become a thorn in the side.  I've come to realize on my layout that you will have an issue at some point on just about every spot on your layout and the harder it (the track) is to access... well let me say the frustration level increases 10-fold with problems on inaccessible track. 

[Stourbridge Lion]

Is the plan practical for Level #1 as I don't want to try to design Level #2 without Level #1 design doable...

[Stourbridge Lion]

Based on feedback I have gotten from one or more forums I have tweaked Level #1 (Deck #1)

Does this resolve the access issues in the nook without causing other issues?

[Stourbridge Lion]

Grades

I will work to get a couple of diagrams put together next to show relative elevations and grade information to see what feedback that might also bring in...

[Stourbridge Lion]

As requested / promised, here are the relative elevations of Track/Oval #1 which would be the bottom oval of Desk #1.  Note the Cross-Over is a "+4" which is where Oval #1 and Oval #2 meet.



For Track #2 / Oval #2 of Desk #1 it's a bit harder to read but the Cross Over is the lowest point at "+4" and the tightest clearance is under 3" but more than 2.25".  The area listed at "+6" has a "+4" under it but I rounded the numbers so it just looks like 2" clearance.  The other are that is tight is where the "+8" is heading for "+7" going under a "+9" "+10" but it has a 2.5" clearance.  Both these area can be tweaked in elevation if 2.25" clearance is not enough as I was shooting to keep grades at 2% or less.



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