Atlas PS-1 release 1 announced

[MichaelWinicki]

You return to this theme more often than not, and it seems you're perturbed because you want the higher-end models at 1980 prices. 

LOL!

That applies to alot of consumers.

They want the Lexus at Coralla pricing. 

[Brakie]

For fifty years there has been the "whoa up" line that manufacturers try not to cross.  You make it sound as if 2012 is different than 1972.  It's not.  More sophisticated and more specific targeting of the consumer base perhaps.  But there's always been a balance between price-point and saleability that has to be observed.

The ability exists today to target a specific model for a specific segment of the consumer base.  To believe that your personal perception of $40 MSRP exceeding the boundaries of reasonable pricing is the general perception is nothing more than you projecting.  The Red Caboose auto racks pushed the $40 mark five years or so ago, by far the most expensive N scale freight car on average at the time, and it was their best-selling N scale model ever.  The RC model is significantly better than the MTL version in numerous areas (design, detail, ride-height), yet the average MSRP of the MTL version isn't much less.  But both models (and the MTL open racks) far exceed the quality of the auto rack models introduced in the late 1960s.  The Arnold, Bachmann and Roco models (and the Con-Cor model from the 1980s) are clearly toy-like juxtaposed with the RC and MTL models.

As I indicated up-thread, there are plenty of Trainman-level items available on the market for those who feel newer items are out of their price range.  You return to this theme more often than not, and it seems you're perturbed because you want the higher-end models at 1980 prices.  That simply isn't going to happen.  If you want the models that are better detailed and more accurate to the prototype, then you have to allow that such features are more costly than the crudely-detailed models tooled in the 1970s.

One other point to note - over the last decade or so there has been far far far more turnover of N scale product than ever before, which has resulted in a greater amount of models being introduced.  So it appears the current model is working.

Well,true that and I agree.

However,this is 2012 not the 60s,70s,80s or even the 90s times are different that's a fact.

The thing I am seeing is the HO guys are indeed saying "whoa up" to the higher price cars and to a degree some RTR locomotives-think  N Scalers will be any different when manufacturers cross that final line? I think not.

I can't see paying  $40.00 for a HO car think Ill be buying a tiny $40.00 N scale car even though I can easily afford either? Guess again.

I have no vested interest in manufacturing,work in the industry,own a shop nor do I work in one or anything like that..I do pay attention to what I'm hearing and reading.

I need not buy another engine or car in either HO or  N..I have more then enough.

[bbussey]

... I need not buy another engine or car in either HO or  N..I have more then enough.

Then you don't need to worry about it!

[amato1969]

Another issue I think about lately is how much *my* time is worth.  IOW, how many hours would it take me to bash/detail/paint a model, when a better-quality model is available in this case???

  Frank

[MichaelWinicki]

Another issue I think about lately is how much *my* time is worth.  IOW, how many hours would it take me to bash/detail/paint a model, when a better-quality model is available in this case???

  Frank

A very valid point Frank.

It's very easy to get lost in the minutiae of model railroading and somehow miss the ultimate target, which for many of us (not all of us, but many) and that's having a layout that is operational, with scenery down, buildings in place and a reasonable amout of detailing done.

[towl1996]

Atlas very easily could have commanded more for this strongly-desired prototype if they had chosen to do so.

Seriously? And they didn't because....?

[Puddington]

In case you have forgotten.....

Seller makes product, sets price and either reaps rewards or suffers the damage of their actions.....

Buyer purchases product or does not purchase product based on their own set of perameters....

Nothing else counts for spit......

If you want to complain about price, get into the market; otherwise, buy or don't buy.............it's your role in the market.

It's called capitalism and it's still working pretty well....................

[Brakie]

Then you don't need to worry about it!

I didn't say I wasn't going to buy another car or engine.

[Brakie]

Seriously? And they didn't because....?

Probably because they wanted to sell these cars and even at the current price level its almost 2 for 1 between the Trainman PS1 and the new PS1.

I guess the real problem is in their hands..IF those higher price PS1s turns out to be slow sellers I suspect it will be a long dry spill on the Trainman PS1-until Atlas has their ROI for the newly tooled car..

[bbussey]

I need not buy another engine or car in either HO or  N..I have more then enough.

I didn't say I wasn't going to buy another car or engine.

You model in two scales and have equipment rosters sufficient enough in both that you don't have to expand them further should you choose not to.  That is a luxury most modelers do not share.  I don't think you need to keep revisiting the pricing issue every couple of months - especially in Railwire where the majority of the participants prefer having the option of buying detailed models based on specific prototypes.  There are models on the market that fit within your price parameters in both scales.  So you shouldn't have reason to complain.

I guess the real problem is in their hands..IF those higher price PS1s turns out to be slow sellers I suspect it will be a long dry spill on the Trainman PS1-until Atlas has their ROI for the newly tooled car..

Atlas doesn't have a problem.  The Trainman version with the nuclear containment door is tooled to (barely) 1970s standards and is disproportioned significantly.  These new PS-1 models definitely won't be slow sellers.  People have been waiting for accurate PS-1 models for decades, and the current option (which is MTL's best-selling bodystyle by far) is priced only slightly lower.  I still maintain that the entire issue is that there are models you want that are priced higher than you want to pay, hence the constant stream of griping.   No one is forcing you to buy anything you don't want to buy, and the doom and gloom for the industry you always hint at it is non-existent.  Read Puddington's post above.

[MichaelWinicki]

My uneducated opinion is that Atlas is going to do really well with this car-type.

I'm a tad suprised that MT didn't come out with a stepped-up PS1 themselves.

[GonzoCRFan]

The thing I am seeing is the HO guys are indeed saying "whoa up" to the higher price cars and to a degree some RTR locomotives

From my personal sales experience, I'd day this definitely isn't the case, even in the midst of this poor economy. I've sold a good number of Exactrail cars that cost a pretty penny, even when a 25% discount is offered; as well as plenty of Tangent cars very close to full MSRP because not every dealer carries them. Seems as long as the quality of a model justifies it's price point, the model will sell. Bryan's X58s are a PRIME example of that.

[lashedup]

Consumer goods are pretty simple. Some people don't see a need/can't afford/want the "deluxe" version of something. A  base VW Golf is $17,000 and is a perfectly fine car to a ton of people. However some people want the extra bells and whistles of the Audi A3 (another small hatchback the size of a VW Golf) and are willing to pay $27,000. The guy that bought a Golf often thinks the guy that bought the A3 is nuts for paying twice as much. The Audi A3 owner appreciates the extra attention to detail and features that come with that product.

It is no different in this hobby. If ESM, BLMA, FVM and now Atlas want to cater to more discerning modelers and the market will support it, then great. Supply and demand. Like already mentioned, there are still a LOT of options and ways to pick up N scale items cheap, not to mention products like the Trainman Line that are intended to be affordable and have less detail. For a lot of people that is more than enough. For some though, they expect or want more and are willing to pay a little more for it.

- Jamie

[Specter3]

I would venture to say that there is a whole lot of thought and market research that goes into a company selling these upscale cars. On some fronts the market research is fairly easy to see(ESM X58) on others it is harder to fathom why they made that particular model. But for all the thought of monkeys throwing darts at pictures on a board, someone had a process they followed to get to the decision of building that model. And more than likely in most cases it was more than one someone. And fickle as we are there are a whole lot of modelers out there that have buying patterns that we would never understand.

Ruan

[Ian MacMillan]

From my personal sales experience, I'd day this definitely isn't the case, even in the midst of this poor economy. I've sold a good number of Exactrail cars that cost a pretty penny, even when a 25% discount is offered; as well as plenty of Tangent cars very close to full MSRP because not every dealer carries them. Seems as long as the quality of a model justifies it's price point, the model will sell. Bryan's X58s are a PRIME example of that.

+1
In HO I would spend ~$100 on craftsman cars and ~$500 on kits without a blink of an eye, but the quality matched the price point so I had no issue with it.I would do the same in n if there was that market.  The price point on some of these new cars from Atlas and others I have no issue with when the detail, quality, etc, matches it.