AC4400CW Grab Irons & Other Parts (CP Version)

[DrifterNL]

Am I correct in the following:
On the AC4400CW the nose grab-irons are 18" and the rear grab-irons are 15"?
Thanks for any help!
 

[GaryHinshaw]

I think that is what the Kato shell castings use, and I think 18" is correct for the front grabs.  My impression from photos is that the rear grabs are closer to 18", but I could be wrong.  Here is an example:

http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=75469

When I was detailing my first AC4400 I used this photo to justify 18" grabs on the rear of my model:



Someone like Robbman could give you a more definitive answer...

-Gary

[ednadolski]

I'm not sure precisely, but I think you're pretty close.

However I'm not sure that the prototype width dimensions matter that much for modeling purposes, at least in terms of installing your own wire grabirons.   On a model, you usually want to follow in the the 'shadows'  of the cast-on grabirons (esp. if you are not re-painting a factory finish), and those may or may not correspond to the prototype dimensions.   It depends upon the manufacturer.

It also depends on the wire size for the grabirons.   I prefer scale-diameter grabirons, since I don't see much point to doing that level of work but then installing oversize diameter wire parts.   Scale diameter is about 0.005", unfortunately no one makes these commercially, so I form my own from 0.005" stainless steel wire.  Once you get a technique down, it's really not all that much more extra work.

One other catch tho -- with wire that small, even a #80 drill bit at 0.0135" diameter drills a hole that is too big for the wire.  So I use #94 drill bits which are 0.0071" diameter.   However these require extra care since they are pretty delicate.  (Some folks use clipped wire instead of a drill bit...  haven';t had the chance to try it myself yet.)  Good light and good magnification (plus a willingness to tolerate an occasional broken bit  ;D ) are the key   

Regards,
Ed

[ednadolski]

Not to hijack the thread, but Gary do you have an updated link to your album?   Looks like a lot of the old links have moved.

Thanks,
Ed

[bbussey]

... Some folks use clipped wire instead of a drill bit... 

It definitely works.  An approximately one-inch length of stainless steel wire in a micro-collet with a half-inch exposed and the tip cut at a sharp angle lasts far far longer than micro drill bits and is much less expensive.  There is a little bit of flex to the wire that doesn't exist with the bits, and when the wire bends (as it will do eventually) you simply cut another section.

[DrifterNL]

Thanks for the replies / info!

The rear grab irons in the photo link provided by GaryHinshaw do look more like 18" than 15".
Looking at my stock Kato and the picture you can also see the differences in the "As Delivered" compared to the real thing.

This is a first time thing for me (total noob) and will be going the BLMA route for detailing parts.
I'm taking my time at this, here is the progress so far -> http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/group.php?discussionid=1202&page=&do=discuss

[GaryHinshaw]

Not to hijack the thread, but Gary do you have an updated link to your album?   Looks like a lot of the old links have moved.

Thanks,
Ed

Sure.  Still trying to recover from what was supposed to be a minor re-org of my albums.... 

https://picasaweb.google.com/Gary.F.Hinshaw/MotivePower?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCNeExJfRsra4oQE&feat=directlink

DrifterNL, feel free to post your progress on Railwire too!

-Gary

[Philip H]

If you are going the BLM route, I highly recommend their grabiron drilling template. It's sometimes a minor challenge to figure out how to get it aligned on a shell, but the "like butter" installation of the grabs makes it worth while.

[ednadolski]

Thanks for the replies / info!

The rear grab irons in the photo link provided by GaryHinshaw do look more like 18" than 15".
Looking at my stock Kato and the picture you can also see the differences in the "As Delivered" compared to the real thing.

This is a first time thing for me (total noob) and will be going the BLMA route for detailing parts.
I'm taking my time at this, here is the progress so far -> http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/group.php?discussionid=1202&page=&do=discuss

Looks like you're making good progress.    Nice job getting that Kato cab off in one piece!     I think you have to simultaneously spread the cab  sides apart, tip up the front of the cab (and simultaneously bend down the front sill/frame), AND also slide the entire cab assembly forward to clear those 'hook-on' pins from their slots.  (Two engines and I ended up just cutting off the hook-in pins).

Since you will end up having to match the paint anyway, you'll probably benefit from removing the cast-on grabirons.  It will look a lot better, and I've recently found that (safely!) using a #15 scalpel blade did a good job of removing the cast-on ones.

Ed

[GaryHinshaw]

...and I've recently found that (safely!) using a #15 scalpel blade did a good job of removing the cast-on ones.

#15?  I think that's a keyhole saw blade.  Did you mean something else?  I'd love to know.

[Scottl]

Gary, that CP AC4400 is superb.  It took me some time to convince myself that it was n-scale!  Beautiful work.

[ednadolski]

#15?  I think that's a keyhole saw blade.  Did you mean something else?  I'd love to know.

Actually it's a #15 surgical scalpel blade:

http://www.micromark.com/No-15-Scalpel-Blades-Pkg-of-5,6629.html
http://www.micromark.com/Super-Grip-Scalpel-Handle,7477.html

I'm liking the way the curved blade handles, I'm making fewer nicks & scratches than with a straight blade.

(Edit: these blades are pretty dang sharp, so the last thing you want to do is slip with it.   Use light pressure, don't force it, take small bites, and let the tool do the cutting.   And oh yeah, keep your fingers clear!)

The other thing that helps me a lot are the #10 magnifier lenses for the Optivisor, and a pair of Ott lights 

Ed

[DrifterNL]

Sure.  Still trying to recover from what was supposed to be a minor re-org of my albums.... 
https://picasaweb.google.com/Gary.F.Hinshaw/MotivePower?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCNeExJfRsra4oQE&feat=directlink
-Gary

Thanks for the link, that's one great looking unit!
And the pictures will help me in the placement of a few parts.

Since you will end up having to match the paint anyway, you'll probably benefit from removing the cast-on grabirons.  It will look a lot better, and I've recently found that (safely!) using a #15 scalpel blade did a good job of removing the cast-on ones.
Ed

I'm leaning towards that route now, it would look a lot better.

If you are going the BLM route, I highly recommend their grabiron drilling template. It's sometimes a minor challenge to figure out how to get it aligned on a shell, but the "like butter" installation of the grabs makes it worth while.

Already ahead of you on this one.
On the front it would work but the rear of the CP version seems to have the grabs evenly spaced (among other things) so for the rear I'll be doing a little measuring.
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I'm off to order some parts.

[DrifterNL]

A few updates  -> http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/group.php?discussionid=1202&do=discuss

[Philip H]

Nice work!