Illinois Central/Canadian National in N scale

[nscalemike]

Michael- Thanks for the comments and I agree, I've also seen some layouts that presents a long reach.  It makes it even tougher when you need to reach over finished scenery, then a shorter reach becomes tough too!

Gary- You throw out some good points, some of which I have thought a lot about and honestly not sure I've made all the right decisions.  I have not built or mocked up the staging yard yet.  The two aisles are actually about 28 1/2" wide.  They are starting out 29" from benchwork to benchwork, but I'll loose just a bit when the fascia is installed.  That is a little tighter then I would like (man what I would give for this room to be a foot wider!!!!) but I am hoping it will work.  You are right, it will mostly be solo operation and when there is guests (maybe 2-3 times a year) I figure it will only be an extra 2-3 people.  Thats also one reason behind the short wall redesign; now one operator can be in each aisle and stay busy without bumping into each other, and maybe a third running a through train.

I thought about the nolix idea but ran into a few issues.  1, the midwestern theme.  I thought about trying a mountain line, but honestly never modeled that and don't know how well I'd pull the scenery off.  (Then again, never really pushed any of my midwestern layouts into serious scenery stage either.)  2, the continous grade issue.  I wanted more switching and less running.  I was worried about the grade causing problems with that.  3, the continuous run.  Like you said, no easy way to accomplish that.  That being said, I also learned that leaving the center open could provide for additional non-model recreation --- big screen television on the short far wall with big chair in the center, the ballgame on the screen and the loaded beer fridge right outside that door . . . . . . . ideas!!

Either way, you are probably right, I should work first on building that staging area and make sure it fits and the aisles are acceptable.  If not, then my backup plan will be to turn the area next to the door into the staging yard and only have the long wall for ops.  This is maybe what I should do to begin with, I just hate to use that space for non-operational staging yard.  Mocking it up will actually be easy since I plan on building the staging yard on top of 2 extra cabinets I have in the shed.  I could put those in place where they go and get a pretty good idea how it will work.

Thanks for the thoughts, I always enjoy them! 

Mike

[GaryHinshaw]

I agree that the nolix is problematic for your givens & druthers.  Since you have cabinets that will support the staging space, you should definitely pull them into the room soon to see how it feels before you get to far on the rest of the plan.  (You may recall that I has a similar central peninsula in a slightly wider space - and the good folks here dissuaded me from it.  I'm glad they did!)

Here's another idea: put the staging along the bottom wall, but then have the 'Springfield' town in front of it, with a very low view-block between them.  The whole thing could be done on a shelf that is 24-28" deep, so you could easily reach the staging if necessary, but if it's really just staging, that shouldn't be too frequent an occurrence.  That eliminates the need for the peninsula with minimal ops sacrifice.  Aside from possible reach issues, the other downside would be that it's difficult to fit a wye in there for clockwise running, but maybe that's not so bad.

Another option is something along the lines of my plan.  Have staging under either the top or bottom shelf, then have a short helix under the right shelf where the top emerges to a wye, much like you have drawn already.  (The helix itself could serve as additional staging space.)  With this scheme, you're forced to have at least a 30-36" deep shelf to accommodate the helix, but given your shelf height, you can easily include access points.  My Loop shelf is 66" deep, but so far, the combination of height and access points has made working on it quite straightforward. 

Don't underestimate the importance of making this space a place you *want* to spend time in.  If it's too cramped, that could undermine your best laid plans.  And two thumbs up on the the big screen and beer fridge.   

-Gary

[nscalemike]

Been a month since the last update and what a month it's been!  First, not only did I mock up the staging peninsula but found out it was going to be acceptable and constructed it permanently.  With that done, it forced me to clean up the room a bit, which made the feasibility of the peninsula even better.  Then I started working on laying out the staging yard wye, have that mostly installed, and installed the tracks for the new second town.  I also reworked the left end wall grain elevator complex.  I say complex because now it truly is a complex.  I also have began the wiring stage of construction with three turnout machines wired in and the main bus lines ran.  Pics and details to come soon!

With track work nearly finished, it is time to begin serious thought on operations.  Maybe the time for this thought was before the design but I am good at putting the horse before the cart.  This is where i turn to the brain power of the railwire members for advice. 

I am modeling a proto-freelanced area of the IC-CN line in central Illinois.  The main line runs from chicago to carbondale. I figure my two best options for believability but still freelanced is 1: model a completely new line, either coming off the real main to a different destination or such.  Or 2: model the main as is but add in my stretch of made up somewhere on the line.  This gives me the advantage of being able to copy the main line through traffic and having known destinations without having to create an entire lines traffic flow.  That is only my assumptions and not knowing a whole lot of details about the prototype operations or model railroad ops in general I am kinda at a lost.

Any thoughts?  Am I on track or way off base?

Thanks as always for the advice and sorry if there's typos, sent from my cell phone!

Mike

[GaryHinshaw]

Looking good Mike.    (We need photos...)

Re ops: it seems to me that midwestern railroading is generic enough (in an appealing way, don't get me wrong) that you could say your pike is a stretch of the real IC line without doing violence to the concept.  Then, do some research on current traffic patterns and operations and learn everything you can about it.  You won't regret it.

One thing I've been doing lately is to listen to UP's Tehachapi dispatcher while I work on the layout.  It's a great way to get a sense of how things actually work (and often don't work!).  There are several streams available on RailroadRadio.Net.  (Alas not the IC, yet.)

Cheers,
Gary

[C855B]

One thing I've been doing lately is to listen to UP's Tehachapi dispatcher while I work on the layout.  It's a great way to get a sense of how things actually work (and often don't work!).  There are several streams available on RailroadRadio.Net.  (Alas not the IC, yet.)

WR52? A railfan buddy of mine was the voice of WR52 for many years.

As far as the IC in central Illinois through the website, this may happen if I get off my behind, provided the radio I'm testing right now is clean. Downside is that the nature of operations on a mostly-level railroad with CTC means very, very little radio traffic. 95% of the chatter on the IC freq in our town is NS trains getting permission to cross.

[Zox]

Might I suggest Gilman, IL as a good place to look at? It's got a small yard, a few sidings and spurs, an interchange (with the TP&W), and it's listed as an Amtrak stop. However, it doesn't have any really iconic buildings that I'm aware of, so you could be pretty generic and still be able to nail yourself to a real location on the map.

(Gilman was the nearest "big town" for my family until I was seven years old.)

[nscalemike]

Thanks for the replies.  Gary, you are right about midwestern railroad being 'generic'!  One farm town after another, each one with an elevator and maybe another industry!  And Zox, I do like Gilman, it's been on my list of places to see and railfan for a while.  Since I still can't seem to wrap my head around naming my two fictional towns after real towns, I have decided to follow the line as is and just stick my two towns along the route.  I will follow the traffic patterns/ops/procedures as I learn them, and since I'm fairly certain this is not my last layout to be built the next will follow a bit more prototypical track arrangement and use the prototype information that I hope to learn in the coming years.  That being said here we go:

Railroad - Canadian National
Location - Gilman, IL - Champaign, IL
       - Lynfield District
Era - Fall 2005 (give or take a year)


Staging yard will represent Gilman and Champaign.  Real life they are 50 miles apart or so, but in model form they share the same tracks.  So,  leaving the staging yard southbound from Gilman you will take the right leg of the wye.  The first town you arrive at is Middle Fork.  This takes the place of real life Paxton, IL.  Middle Fork is named for the nearby river and forest preserve.  The railroad has a junction here, Middle Fork Junction, which it interchanges cars with the CSX.  Middle Fork is a small but busy town, home to a three track yard, two main line passing sidings, and three industries.  There is a switch crew stationed here that works daily. 

From Middle Fork, the line crosses the Middle Fork river before entering into North Lynfield.  North Lynfield isn't much of a town as seen by the railroad, however, on the west edge of town is the home of the Lynfield County Grain.  This complex deals with unit trains and has the capacity to hold 16 cars on each the incoming and outgoing tracks.  Just across the main line from LCG is two new industries. 

The line crosses a grade crossing and enters Lynfield.  This would take the place of real life Rantoul, IL.  Much like Rantoul, Lynfield is a station stop for Amtrak.  It is an older industrial town that boasts six rail served industries today.  In years past there were more but like many midwestern towns several have closed up shop.  Lynfield's industry includes a lumber yard, a chemical transloading site, and a scrap yard.  It does not have a yard, but served daily by the Lynfield Local it has a storage track with 11 car capacity.  Between the local work and the steady through trains, Lynfield sees plenty of action. 

When you leave Lynfield the line curves around to the left leg of the staging wye, enters the staging yard which represents Champaign.  Through trains continue south from there on the next district.   

Here is the current track plan:

[nscalemike]

You'll notice that many industries have numbers near them.  I'm starting to lay out my ops plan and now that I have named the towns and located them on the map I need to finalize my industries.  This is another aspect that my lack of experience really stumps me.  Any suggestions on industries would be great.  Some I have ideas for:
5 - Transfer/storage company (take incoming box cars of various products, emptys out, 2 car capacity)
7 - Newpaper printer (incoming boxcar of paper, empty out, 1 car capacity)
3 - LPG or corn syrup facility (unsure type of cars needed for corn syrup.  4 car capacity)
10 - some type of plastics manufacturing (Plastic pellet hoppers in, emptys out, 5 car capacity)

I am not opposed to changing the labeled industries but thought those would fit well in those spots.  The chemical transloading site I also do not know much about. The three track industry #11 I am at a real loss, any ideas with car/contents would be great. 

My car fleet is generally as follows:
30 - 4750 cf 3 bay hoppers
9 - 4650 cf 3 bay hoppers
4 - 4 bay pressure aide centerflow hoppers
4 - 5800 plastics hoppers
44 - 50' box cars
11 - 60' Excess height and/or auto parts box cars
2 - 64' Trinity reefers
6- 90 ton open hoppers
20 - mill gons (50' and longer)
4 - 33000 gal tank cars
5 - 23500 gal tank cars
2 - 17360 gal tank cars
5 - kaolin tank cars
8 - ethanol tank cars
2 - depressed center flats
2 - 50' flats
2 - centerbeam flats
5 - bulkhead flats
2- 60' flats
plus kato coal/intermodel sets and lots of autoracks and roadrailers

I don't have to use all the cars as some can go on my through trains and I am not opposed to buying additional cars but would like to stick somewhat along these lines.  Any ideas at all would be very much appreaciated!

Thanks for reading,
Mike

[nscalemike]

Over the last week or so I've really focused on identify and naming industries so I can work out my ops plan.  Here is the track plan with all but one industry identified:



Starting in Middle Fork the industries are:
-Food Processing plant. Inbound tanks of oil/corn syrup and inbound reefers, outbound empties
-LPG Dealer.  Inbound LPG, outbound empties
-(last industry still unknown, looking for a multi-spot type industry)
-CSX interchange

North Lynfield:
-Lynfield County Grain, Inbound empty hoppers, outbout grain loads
-Midwest Distributing, Inbound box cars of general freight, outbound empty
-Associate Transfer, Inbound box cars of general freight, outbound general freight

Lynfield:
-Lumber Facility, Inbound centerbeam/bulkhead/box of lumber,  outbound empty
-Lynfield Journal, Inbound box car of newsprint paper, outbound scrap paper
-Scrap Yard, Inbound empty gons, outbound scrap loads
-Chemical Transload, Inbound loads, outbound empty
-Plastics America, Inbound plastic pellets, inbound tank, outbound empty
-K-9 Nurtition, Inbound empty box cars, corn syrup tanks, and covered hoppers of grain, outbound boxcar loads, empty tanks/hoppers

As soon as I identify the last industry I can start to design the car cards/waybills.

Any thoughts on what I have here?

Thanks for reading,
Mike

[MichaelWinicki]

I think it looks good Mike.

As I thought about what industries I wanted on my layout, I thought about train-flow and more importantly yard-flow.

From that point I took my list of industries, a rough list of trains I wanted to run and came up with a rough chart that gave me a lot of insight on if what I was thinking was right or wrong.  He's the chart I came up with at one point... It wasn't the final chart BUT it was far enough into the process that I had eliminated yard bottle-necks and had a good understanding of the number of trains and cars the yard would support:

Each line of the chart starts off with something like this:  30 [15-7-8]  The first number means that there are 30 cars in yard at that particular moment in time.  Keep in mind the yard has total capacity of 57 cars.  And is broken down into three separate yards for classification purposes: Outgoing Yard, Branchline Yard, Local Yard.

The rest of the numbers, [15-8-7] means there 15 cars in the Outgoing Yard, 8 cars in the Branchline Yard, and 7 cars in the Local Yard.  The Outgoing Yard is always the first number, the Branchline Yard is always the second and the Local Yard is always the third.

The yard starts out at 30 [15-7-8]
1.   Early train to branch 23 [15-0-8] 1 Engine A– from looking at the above row of numbers and comparing them to this row, you can see that this branchline train is taking 7 cars out of the branchline yard.  That's why the Branchline Yard now reads 0.
2.   Inbound 35 [15-8-12] 1 Engine H
3.   Olean local 30 [15-8-7] 1 Engine B
4.   Outbound 18 [3-8-7] 1 Engine I
5.   Returning Olean local 23 [8-8-7]
6.   Inbound 35 [8-14-13] 1 Engine J
7.   Warren local 26 [8-14-4] 1 Engine C
8.   Returning early train from branch 33 [15-14-4]
9.   Outbound 21 [3-14-4] 1 Engine K
10.   Inbound 33 [3-17-13] 1 Engine L
11.   Interchange train 21 [3-5-13] 2 Engines D & E
12.   Returning Warren local 30 [12-5-13]
13.   Outbound 18 [0-5-13] 1 Engine M
14.   Inbound 30 [0-14-16] 1 Engine N
15.   Bradford local 22 [0-14-8] 1 Engine A
16.   Returning interchange train 34 [12-14-8]
17.   Late train to the branch 27 [12-7-8]
18.   Returning Bradford local 35 [20-7-8]
19.   Outbound 23 [8-7-8] 1 Engine O
20.   Returning train from branch 30 [15-7-8] This is the number we started with at the beginning, which is a good thing.  A complete cycle of trains ends with things pretty much as they should be for the next operating session.

By going through this process I could make sure...

A. The yard would never be overloaded to the point of being "clogged".  There is never more than 35 cars in the yard at one point.
B. That there are sufficient cars in each sub-yard to run the trains that are scheduled.  For example if I had a branchline trains scheduled but there were only 2 cars in the branchline yard, then this wouldn't be a good thing.

In addition to all the trains listed above I also have 6 through-freights which do not stop at the yard, so they have no affect on the operations there, but I did pay attention to the chart when scheduling them, so that they passed over the layout at times I thought were most interesting for operations.  For example while the first trains is being made up (for the branchline) I have a through-freight pass over the layout, giving an operator a train to run while the yard crew is doing their thing.

[nscalemike]

Hi All,

I've been working the last couple of weeks on installing some slide switches and more staging yard tracks, along with thinking about my ops plan and the car cards/waybills I will be using.  I had planned to have 8 staging tracks for through trains.  These include all the stuff I want to run but really have no place for on the layout (Auto racks, stack trains, Amtrak, ect.)  That was going to leave me with 2 tracks for my local runs, which I originally planned to assembly by hand from drawers underneath.  Today, I learned I can get my 8 staging tracks in and have room for a small 3 track classification yard.  I thought this may be more beneficial than assembling every local by hand.  However, before I install them I want to make sure it is going to be useful and started thinking about the ops again.  For some reason I am not thinking clearly today or I just really don't know the answer but I can't figure out the traffic pattern. 

My thoughts are to run a local train from Champaign, IL, to my fictional Middle Fork, IL, passing through Lynfield on the way, then back to Champaign.  The local will switch Lynfield, run with the Middle Fork cars to drop off/pick up at the small Middle Fork yard then return to Lynfield, grab the Champaign bound cars and return to staging.  If need be due to traffic volume, I can also split this up into two runs, with a transfer run going to Middle Fork and the local just doing the switching in Lynfield.  Middle Fork will have a switch crew based their to handle the switching duties at the three industries and the interchange. 

This means every car on the layout comes or goes from either Champaign or the Middle Fork interchange.  Obviously, once the train gets back to Champaign it only continues to travel 'on paper' as nothing else is modeled.  So I'm thinking their is no classification to be done there and why I had my original plan of putting those cars in drawers for seperate destinations.  Is this thinking correct or am I missing something?

Also, is it prototypical to have this type of run, or would it be better to run all the way into the Gilman staging to drop off the northbound cars and pick up new southbound cars?  For example, if the waybill for the inbound boxcar load of paper for the Lynfield Journal is coming from Chicago, would that car travel south through Gilman, past the industry, and into Champaign to get onto the local train which then takes it back north to Lynfield? Or, would it be dropped with cars in Gilman and then continue south to the industry?  Same with outbound,  if the cars destination is north does it go south first?

Maybe I am over thinking this whole thing and making it more complicated than it is or needs to be but my ops experience is not all that great. 

Here is an updated track plan with my staging/classification yard thoughts:


Thanks for the help,
Mike

[Bendtracker1]

For example, if the waybill for the inbound boxcar load of paper for the Lynfield Journal is coming from Chicago, would that car travel south through Gilman, past the industry, and into Champaign to get onto the local train which then takes it back north to Lynfield? Or, would it be dropped with cars in Gilman and then continue south to the industry? 

Mike, dropping the car of paper off in Gilman would work just fine, then it could be picked up and dropped off on the industry lead since it is a trailing point turnout and if there is a car there that is empty, swap them out and leave the empty on the siding.  If your temp car storage track was double ended, then you could leave either one on there and pick it up or swap it on the next trip back to Gilman.  That way the car would never have to go into Champaign.  If you don't double end the siding, then you would have to do a run around.

[nscalemike]

Hi all,

It's been a while but I've worked on a couple projects here and there.  Namely, I have finished my CN patch out of the newly obtained BNSF C40-8W.  I believe the new CN number is the same as the prototypes but go figure, this BNSF loco is the only one that hasn't been photographed as a patched unit.  Today it is in CN black and orange already.

Here are two videos of it at work.  Not great videos but it's my first time trying to take the shots and upload it to the computer.  I'll play with it more in the future.  Also, hopefully in the next day or two when my camera battery gets recharged I'll get some decent stills of it.

Thanks for watching!
Mike

[pwnj]

Oops!  Your videos are set to "private", so while I can see the single frame, we can't watch the video.

[nscalemike]

Oops!  Your videos are set to "private", so while I can see the single frame, we can't watch the video.

See, thats what happens when I try and do something that I don't know about and I am half asleep!  Thanks for pointing it out pwnj, I think I have it fixed now.

Thanks again, Mike