New Bachmann GP7 images...

[Puddington]

I have a Bmann FM H16-55. It "cogs" at slow speeds. They are good for 3 polers, but I can easily tell that it is a 3 poler - it's as plain as the nose on your face. I am using DC.

That said, I have the FM and three Bachmann steamers (including two "J"s) with these 3 polers. Although the motors are clearly inferior to a decent 5 pole motor, they are not bad enough to prod me to re-motor them. This is progress! ;D

I'd probably leave N scale if all N scale locos had these motors.

Mark


At what price would you stay then............? Bachmann's MSRP vs Kato's MAP price.....? We are talking apples to oranges........ and as you said; the Bachmann motor runs well enough.

[MichaelWinicki]

3-pole or 5-pole.  Those Bachmann GP7's ran well for me.   Nice slow speed operation. 

Yeah, maybe the decoder is creating much of that, but still, if it runs well, it runs well. 

Mark (Spookshow) said the same on the Atlas forum.  If anything he thought the lack of flywheels was more of an issue.

[Wardie]

The lack of flywheels will keep me from ever buying any of these. I can forgive the lack of flywheels in the GE Switchers, they are small, but not in something the size of a GP-7. Give me the Atlas units any day.

[wcfn100]

It doesn't surprise me that people wanna bash this model....after all it's a BARFMANN....Right Jason ?...... and nothing good ever comes from them........right ? WRONG. >

 :

Jason

[Mark5]

Pud, it's seven or nothing ...  

If you still think I'm nuts I created a thread so you can lambast me: 

http://therailwire.net/forum/index.php/topic,22951.0.html

[Sokramiketes]

I don't know... looking at what needs to be fixed on the Bachmann (fans!) and what needs to be fixed on an Atlas (that awful walkway gap that can't hardly be dealt with, carving off molded on grabs, lightweight...) and the Bachmann might come out ahead.  Certain details look sharper on the Bachmann.  It looks like it will be easy to work on. 

Buyer beware with the paint scheme authenticity, but if you're painting anyway...

[mcjaco]

I'm just hoping those winterization hatches become available seperately. 

[asarge]

Definately a re-decaling on the NYC loco

[victor miranda]

Victor: I bow to your knowledge of motors; my point was simply that just because a motor is a 3 pole doesn't make it junk; were it so then how could Kato have a/ used one; for they are most people's quality standard and b/ How could so many 3 pole equipped locomotives been so well received. A Kato accepted 5 pole motor is a wonderful machine; albeit, not every offering from anyone will contain; or needs such a motor; given the mfg. considerations and price point they wish to hit.

There just seems to be a lingering "5 or nothing" movement out there some days.

I quoted because the thread has gone on a bit...

Hi Puddington,

this bachmann geep is probably going to explain why I have been
trying hard to get people to pay attention to the motors installed.

for the manufacturers the issue is price. 
A three pole is much cheaper than a 5 pole.

for the modelers the issue is performance.
do not mistake this, a 5 pole motor beats a three pole
in modelrailroad service.

With the only question left being what price
for what performance?

If you feel the performance is the same
you will pick the cheaper loco.
at some point as the price of the b-mann unit drops,
you or anyone else will buy the b-mann unit in place of the Atlas.

the market for n-scale is small (I am told)
and there is no way that the b-mann will not displace the
Atlas geep simply because most guys appear to agree with your assessment...
I don't think n-scale is big enough that we n-scalers will sustain two
different GP7/9 units with such different prices.
this leads me to think the Atlas unit will leave the market.

remember at the start of this post what I said?
this bachmann geep is probably going to explain why I have been
trying hard to get people to pay attention to the motors installed.

the b-mann unit will become the standard for n-scale locos.
I am not sure I like that future.

well, who knows?
we have a pile of F-units all over the quality map.
maybe n-scale is enough bigger that I am wrong.
I can hope for that....

victor

[bbussey]

Atlas isn't leaving the market, and they aren't going to abandon their GPs either.

There are plenty of examples of manufacturers offering models of the same prototype, and they are (for the most part) all still standing.

The Bachmann units serve a purpose in making the hobby (slightly) more affordable for the entry-level modelers.  (This is still a $100 MSRP, as opposed to the big-bang-for-the-buck Life-Like engines just prior to the Walthers acquisition.)  But by the time you enhance the unit to get it up to Atlas spec, you're close to that price as well.

There is room for both models, but I truly don't see it impacting Atlas' sales much if at all.  Over the course of time, Atlas will offer more body variations and more paint schemes, including many esoteric ones.  Bachmann will stay with one body configuration and general roadnames, especially in the N scale market.

[victor miranda]

well, ain't that the whole point?
We don't know.

based on what I have seen,
If you want new...
there is only one 4-6-2, 4-6-4, 0-8-0, 0-6-0, and 0-4-0.
the two 2-8-0s are similar in street price,
same with the 2-6-0.
the 2-8-2 and 4-4-0 may well be supporting the thought that
the market is able to support both low quality and high quality...
though I have to state I am not as all sure which 4-4-0 is the high quality example...

victor

[Ed Kapuscinski]

One other thing that people ALWAYS forget to take into account with those super cheap Life-Like engines.

That was NOT intentional. Life-Like did NOT intend to sell GP20s for $20. They became available at that price because Life-Like did NOT correctly handle their production run. Sure, $20 geeps were great, but ever wonder why Life-Like doesn't still exist? Ever stop to think that maybe that had something to do with it?

Now, it's possible they had created a production model where they relied on early, higher ticket, sales to pay for the run, then used the cheap blow outs for profit. But, you gotta think, after you do that a few times, consumers will wise up and those early full ticket sales will end. There were signs of that happening to Life-Like there at the end too.

I don't think we'll ever know which it was, but I can tell you this, those $20 GP20s were not a sign of long term health for the company that made them, so if people are clamoring for that type of thing to come back, I hope they realize that they're also pretty much wishing a death spiral on the manufacturer of the product.

Personally, I'd rather have done without the cheap geeps and still have Life-Like still in the market (and still down the street from my office).

[davefoxx]

Personally, I'd rather have done without the cheap geeps and still have Life-Like still in the market (and still down the street from my office).

Me, too, my friend.

[SkipGear]

The Atlas GP isn't going anywhere. Atlas and Bachmann are covering different area's of the market. You will never see Bachmann do some of the obscure roads and repaints that Atlas will do. Part of Bachmann's price point is in the fact that they plan to run the same paint and body over and over again to recoup tooling costs. Part of Atlas' higher cost is due to the small production batches, road specific details, and unsure sales numbers of the lesser known roads.

You will never see this from Bachmann -


And because of that, there will always be a place for the two brands.

[MichaelWinicki]

I don't think we'll ever know which it was, but I can tell you this, those $20 GP20s were not a sign of long term health for the company that made them, so if people are clamoring for that type of thing to come back, I hope they realize that they're also pretty much wishing a death spiral on the manufacturer of the product.

Personally, I'd rather have done without the cheap geeps and still have Life-Like still in the market (and still down the street from my office).

Letting all those geeps go for $20 or thereabouts had a terrible marketing affect on N scale.  There are still lingering affects.