Art Deco bridge input

[sirenwerks]

I'm off and running (in my head for now) with my new prototype, the Chicago Great Western. Since I'm going to be an apartment dweller for a few more years, I know that I need to keep things simple and portable. So I'm gonna have some fun. I've decided to base a shelf layout on Mason City Iowa. Mason City is the confluence of 1/2 dozen RRs - CGW, MSt&L, RI, Milwaukee, C&NW & a traction line, the Iowa Terminal - all in a few square miles. The key words there are "based on", I just want to capture the feel of a town like Mason City and am not trying to copy any one prototype.

So the other day I'm in Kleins and I talk myself into buying one of Wally's art deco highway underpass kits, since it was marked down fairly.



I want this faux-Mason City to have that sense of pride a lot of Midwestern towns have and chose a shiny new highway underpass to help convey that. My plan is to lengthen the bridge in both directions - taking it from spanning two lanes to spanning four (two, two lane sections of a divided highway) and possibly widening it to hold the throat of a small yard, three tracks minimum, maybe more. To do this, I'm going to end up using the abutments and end towers only and am going to have to build new, longer pedestrian tunnel colonnades and roofs; a new middle-of-the-road pile and colonnade; and replace the steel bridge components with concrete spans.

The plan is to have the road dip under the track section and rise back up so the bridge itself will help mask where the road meets the backdrop; so there'll be concrete walls that edge the sidewalk, keeping it level as the road drops and rises, and I'll need some ornate railings at the walk's edge.

The question is, should the new concrete spans be straight across, like the steel components are in the kit, or have a slight arch to them - one from abutment to center piling and another arch from piling to opposing abutment? I've seen some examples of both on similar deco bridges but they're all over parkways and have no walkways. Anyone have any photos of real examples?

One side note... I'm toying with the idea of running a trolley under the bridge. That new Peter Witt car's calling my name. Any comments on how this should be? Should there be two tracks, one on each side of the road divider? Can trolleys run in opposition to traffic (swim upstream)?

[wcfn100]

If you replace the bridge span with concrete, then you probably need to arch them. But there is no reason you can't leave them steel and just double what's there.  You would just need to create a center pillar to match the ones at the abutments.  If you could get a second kit, you'd probably have all you need.  Also with steel girder, you can add a railing to add to the art deco look.

edit:  Since you didn't mention it, you know there is a Mason City book from Morning Sun.  It's got a few overpasses to draw ideas from, a couple of which would probably be easier to scratchbuilt than kitbashing the Walthers bridge into something else.


Jason

[93cram]

Mason City is truly some great inspiration to begin with Bryan 
This town has been extensively discussed on the M&StL yahoo group, since one member who
knew it first hand in the 50's and 60's is building a HO layout based on the M&StL trackage there.
I wonder if he isn't the author of the Morning Sun book (don't remember the name of this gentleman presently).
BTW, T.Koester has some good knowledge of the town in the 50's too because he lived there as a child before moving
with his parents to a town along the NKP.
Mason City was indeed a railroading hot spot back then, with lots of rail served industries ranging from cement to meat packing, etc...
The town had in part some 'not so flat' terrain around its edges, and the M&StL track for instance crossed a ravine over a trestle bridge, so
there are opportunities for bridges, be them highway or RR bridges, in this kind of locale 

I really like your approach of taking a prototype Midwestern town as inspiration and adapting it to your modeling ambitions 

Marc

[sirenwerks]

Yup, I have the Morning Sun Mason City book and have seen the two-part article on Clark Propst's layout in RMC. Both were inspiration for the idea. Besides the amalgamation of so many roads in one highly modelable spot, Mason City's physical layout makes the meeting of these lines almost a square, which begs to be modeled as a shelf layout around a room. It can be operated as both a series of junctions with a plethora of switching or, if need be, a roundy-round to get my choo-choo on. Plus I get to model more than just the CGW, though thta will be my focus.

As for using a steel bridge as the model features I have to issues... first, there's something wrong (IMO) with Wally's choice of an open-deck bridge in such close proximity to pedestrians. I guess liability lawsuits weren't an issue way back when but I still see ballast being kicked up and thrown at the walkways. At the very least, I see a change over to a ballasted deck bridge type. Which is where the second issue comes up - aesthetics. Concrete spans would allow a ballasted deck design with its structural steel hidden by concrete.

I thought, and I may be wrong, that with such a design concrete would be a more aesthetic choice, and promote the pride ideal I was speaking of. But that's why I am asking for feedback. There's a bridge I see every time I play softball in east Baltimore where the old WM spans a divided two lane road (the Gwynns Falls Parkway) - it has exposed steel, where the girders are cut into an arch on the bottom for aesthetic reasons. I could do that I suppose. Show of hands?

[Sokramiketes]

There's a bridge I see every time I play softball in east Baltimore where the old WM spans a divided two lane road (the Gwynns Falls Parkway) - it has exposed steel, where the girders are cut into an arch on the bottom for aesthetic reasons. I could do that I suppose. Show of hands?

I'll say this, which will probably cause a bunch of photos to pop out of the wood work to prove me wrong... but... That sounds awfully eastern, and I haven't seen something similar in the midwest.  I'd say no.

[wazzou]

It wouldn't be difficult to convert those or other through girder bridges to a ballasted deck design.  I agree that it would be unlikely even in the 40's to have an open design.  
I'm more a fan of the idea to have the center pedestal and another set of girders.  Cast those in that kit or buy some of the new Atlas ones and make the conversion to a ballasted deck.
I can speak only for cities like Spokane, Missoula and a few others out here in the West, but they have steel spans supported by a center pedestal.

[93cram]

Mason City's physical layout makes the meeting of these lines almost a square, which begs to be modeled as a shelf layout around a room. It can be operated as both a series of junctions with a plethora of switching or, if need be, a roundy-round to get my choo-choo on. Plus I get to model more than just the CGW, though thta will be my focus.

Well put Bryan 

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I like the concrete idea, personally. I can picture similar bridges in my mind, but I can't quite tell you where they are.

Google Street View may be your friend there.

[wcfn100]

Ballasted closed deck with steel girders.



A piece of styrene across the top of the girder and you're done.

Jason

[sirenwerks]

I can see where concrete spans may be a more eastern idea. In large part because eastern US development occurred prior to that of rural Midwest - art deco design was built during the art deco period rather than treated as a style later - and the benefit of material knowledge would have been past on. I don't know though in second thought, I have memories of similar bridges in the Chicagoland area.

For those of you who know the M&StL in Mason City, I am aiming at something similar to the Hwy. 18 underpass, but more condensed and somewhat stylized. The original's boring.

Here's the one in Baltimore I talked about:



Bad photo but you get the idea. Steel and concrete overpasses. I like the arch. If I added two center pilings, I could effectively have a narrower third lane down the middle for the trolley line, hmmm...

[Zox]

Ballasted-deck concrete bridge with straight beams, spaces appropriate for walkways on either side, and the design may be highly-simplified art-deco:



The bridge is over I-65 in Lebanon, IN. I drive under it a couple of times a year while heading to Illinois to visit my mother.

ETA: Google Maps link: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Lebanon,+IN&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=62.057085,57.480469&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Lebanon,+Boone,+Indiana&ll=40.038602,-86.479467&spn=0.003729,0.005552&z=18&layer=c&cbll=40.038652,-86.479554&panoid=1Hc3Pbzh-DpN7s17sDMp4Q&cbp=12,289.95,,0,5

[DKS]

I lived a few blocks from this concrete bridge for almost a decade. While not overtly art deco-ish, it's in the family, complete with pedestrian tunnels.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=ewing+nj&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=55.674612,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Ewing,+Mercer,+New+Jersey&t=h&layer=c&cbll=40.267374,-74.810212&panoid=guJNU7OG8xewa3Nax8Rn7w&cbp=12,117.9,,0,6.61&ll=40.267351,-74.810106&spn=0,0.003433&z=19

[sirenwerks]

I lived a few blocks from this concrete bridge for almost a decade. While not overtly art deco-ish, it's in the family, complete with pedestrian tunnels.

Zoinks! New Jersey?

[wazzou]

This is one of the bridges in Spokane, probably my favorite, on S Division St.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=South+Division+Street,+Spokane,+WA&sll=47.664,-117.369089&sspn=0.017197,0.052314&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=S+Division+St,+Spokane,+Washington&ll=47.656644,-117.411211&spn=0.0086,0.026157&t=k&z=16&layer=c&cbll=47.656721,-117.4112&panoid=FQ8xPd0lN8Wh17W3LDAkSQ&cbp=12,7.66,,0,5.37

[wm3798]

All on the WM, decidedly not midwestern, but fairly modern...

Painters Mill Road


Northern Parkway


Reisterstown Road, Owings Mills


Same... Note the unballasted deck


Old Court Road


Rodgers Avenue

And the quintessential WM concrete bridge:

Spring Gap, Maryland... sadly demolished several years ago to inhibit Darwinism from running its course among Allegany County motorists...

Obviously the standards book had a lot of pages...

Lee