PRR Track Plan

[eric220]

As I posted in this week's Weekend Update, I'm rapidly coming to the point where I need to finalize a plan for my railroad.  I'd like to ask for feedback on the plans I posted.  I know they're a little big, so I've cut them down into sections.  Here's the tour:

Lower Level:



Beginning at the lower left at Altoona, we come around to River City.  The city will be built on a removable piece of plywood, and the tracks will go under the city.  The station platforms are 10 feet long.



After River City comes Horseshoe curve, which needs no introduction.



Next comes the coal mine at Panther Creek.



The line that disappears into the mine comes out in Newark at the power plant, providing loads-in-emptys-out switching.  Newark is an industrial town, as opposed to the more commercial River City.  Like River City, Newark is not modeled on any specific prototype location.



Next comes Morrow, which includes an interlocking with the B&O, which serves as the entrance to hidden staging.



And after Morrow comes the biggest undecided factor for me.  There will either be a turnaround or a helix.  I've never done a second level on a layout before, and I'd like to try it.  On the other hand, I don't know if I'll be able to complete scenery on the lower level or not, let alone two!  For now, I'll continue around my plan for the second level, which is much less advanced than my plans for the lower level.



Upper Level:



Out of the helix, we have arrived in Clear Creek Canyon in Colorado.  First up is Idaho Springs, where I hope to re-create the G-scale scene my dad created, followed by Loveland Pass.



After Loveland Pass, comes the Snake River Valley and Keystone Ski Resort.



Next comes a mountain lumber mill, followed by a tunnel.



We come out of the tunnel to find ourselves in suburban California.



Followed by the yard at Oakland.  The yard tracks are a minimum of 10 feet long.



Finally, the tracks disappear into the transbay tube to head into San Francisco.  On the model, after going into the tube, the tracks form a return loop, beginning the return journey.

Comments?

[MichaelWinicki]

I think it's a terrific plan Eric!

My comments...

The amount of trackwork and buildings/scenery on the lower deck is going to be immense... River City looks exciting to build, but it's going to take a lot of time and resources.   The Newark area is very cool.  I love the large river and bridge, along with the industrial switching. 

The second deck gives you more running space, but not much in the way of operation potential.  The two most interesting parts of the second deck are right smack dab over the busier areas on the lower deck, which if you're a lone-wolf operator wouldn't be a problem, but if you're thinking of operating groups, potentially will be.

The lower deck is going to take a lot of time to build and scenic to it's fullest potential.  If if were me I initially build it as a one deck layout with a staging yard where the helix is.   If you got bored with the lower deck, you could then add the upper deck.

[lock4244]

The stub ended yard layout in the River City / Altoona area is quite a fascinating concept. Hiding the stub ends will eliminate the rather phony look of stub ended yards (even if they are prototypical in certain installations... like CN in Brantford, ON). Good plan so far as I can see.

[Dave V]

I'm going to pick one minor fight...  If you think of the sacred sites of the PRR, the Curve is like Mecca or the Vatican.  While you can often get away with abbreviating and compressing other parts of the PRR, up to and including such sacred icons as Rockville, Altoona, 30th Street Station, and even the Middle Division itself (you like how I threw that in there? ;D), the Curve is at once instantly recognizable and non-negotiable.  You have some sort of industry/highway overpass looking stuff on the eastern end of the Curve that intrudes upon the sanctity of Kittaning Point.  I would recommend moving that stuff farther upstream in order to preserve the Curve as one holy Pennsy and unerring Curve.*  Amen.

*The sign of the Keystone may be made by all in remembrance of Pennsy.

[eric220]

The second deck gives you more running space, but not much in the way of operation potential.  The two most interesting parts of the second deck are right smack dab over the busier areas on the lower deck, which if you're a lone-wolf operator wouldn't be a problem, but if you're thinking of operating groups, potentially will be.

Extra running space is really what I was looking for, along with the yard (which I didn't have room for on the lower level).  Unfortunately for me, I don't know all that many local n-scalers who might want to come over, so I'm planning this mainly for my enjoyment, possibly with one or two other people.

The lower deck is going to take a lot of time to build and scenic to it's fullest potential.  If if were me I initially build it as a one deck layout with a staging yard where the helix is.   If you got bored with the lower deck, you could then add the upper deck.

That's the debate I'm having with myself.  Really, that's the route I should probably go, but there are three major reasons that I want to add the second level.  1 - It will add much more run to the mainline.  2 - I've never done two levels before, so it's something new to try.  3 - I really want to include the Colorado and California scenes; that's the incarnation of my altered history that makes this railroad special to me.  Still a decision to be made...

[John]

I don't worship at the altar of PRR .. but I agree .. if you are going to do the curve - you have to do it justice .. compression is OK .. but you have to capture the flavor ..

2 decks are easy to pull off .. you have been to my place - my upper level is basically a long piece of track to do some running on . as long as the helix doesn't take all your room - the sky is the limit ..

as far as finding other operators - stake out a hobby shop - and pull them over after they leave - get them for improper marker lights

[eric220]

I'm going to pick one minor fight...  If you think of the sacred sites of the PRR, the Curve is like Mecca or the Vatican.  While you can often get away with abbreviating and compressing other parts of the PRR, up to and including such sacred icons as Rockville, Altoona, 30th Street Station, and even the Middle Division itself (you like how I threw that in there? ;D), the Curve is at once instantly recognizable and non-negotiable.  You have some sort of industry/highway overpass looking stuff on the eastern end of the Curve that intrudes upon the sanctity of Kittaning Point.  I would recommend moving that stuff farther upstream in order to preserve the Curve as one holy Pennsy and unerring Curve.*  Amen.

*The sign of the Keystone may be made by all in remembrance of Pennsy.

Just to get under the skin that much more, the grade is currently slated to be reversed, going upgrade from left to right.  Although, with the placement of Altoona, I guess it is still going upgrade in the westbound direction, but that just means that the whole curve is backwards. ;D

I can lose the highway overpass without much trouble, and I can even extend the quad-track mainline a little further west, but unfortunately that industrial track serves an important role with the coal mine.  I could probably hide the last few feet with some creative scenicing.  I'll try playing around with it.

[eric220]

I don't worship at the altar of PRR .. but I agree .. if you are going to do the curve - you have to do it justice .. compression is OK .. but you have to capture the flavor ..

Would this be less offensive?



vs

[Dave V]

Much better!  I was obviously kidding, but I actually did read a very angry dissertation once in a PRRT&HS publication about how some modelers "dare" to take liberties with modeling Horseshoe and how they should not be allowed to call it such.  I don't have it handy.  It raised some good points but overall had a very condescending tone.

Once one comes to grips with Keystones in the Rockies the Curve in reverse is easy to swallow. ;D

[John]

Eric .. just remember, its your layout, do what makes you happy .. what us old crumugeons think doesn't really matter ..

[eric220]

Eric .. just remember, its your layout, do what makes you happy .. what us old crumugeons think doesn't really matter ..

If I didn't want feedback, I wouldn't have asked.   ;D

Actually, in retooling the west end of the Curve, I found a way to greatly simplify the coal mine yard.  I may go in and fiddle around some more.

[Dave V]

Eric,

I'm jealous of your space!  You're going to have a great time with that layout.  Big though it is, it looks manageable.

[wm3798]

Eric,
Don't fret about a paucity of local modelers.  I live in a veritable model railroading desert, but through the interwebs and a little bit of personal bullying, I've managed to assemble a crew of about a dozen people who have made themselves available at one time or another to help build the layout as well as run it.  Some of them make a trek of two hours or more to get here.

I would offer one caution, though.  You're biting off quite a chunk to chew there.  If, indeed, you are a lone wolf out there, you might want to think about how much time you want to dedicate to construction and maintenance vs. time actually running trains...

Here's a little treatise I wrote a few months ago as I faced the same question...
http://ttamt.blogspot.com/2010/05/pleasing-crowd-or-yourself-that-is.html

While I also am not a Pennsy fundamentalist, the idea of running the grade the wrong way gives me the hives.  There was an O scale layout in MR a number of years ago, and no matter how accurate the rest of the scene was, the direction of the grade just totally queered the deal.  It's one of those things that might look good on paper, but once it's done it's done, and if you're at all like me, it will drive you bats for the rest of your life.  Of course, there are those that would argue that I was always bats anyway.

I totally dig, however, the Newark section.  That has potential to be enough of a show stopper that people other than the highest of PRR high priests will turn a blind eye to the reverse Curve.  I'll be studying how you've assembled that scene as I work toward building Cumberland on my layout.

Lee

[DKS]

My thoughts, FWIW...

I really like a number of aspects of this ambitious plan. In particular, I think Newark has the potential of being iconic, and if you can pull it off, people may be lining up at the door for a look.

Now for my concerns. For starters, it's really, really track-heavy. Of course, so was the PRR, what with its four-track mains and such. But it seems as though there's hardly a foot of layout (except for bits of the upper level) without something going on. If that's your goal, then disregard the observation.

I find the arrangement of decks counter-intuitive. Most of the time the upper deck has all of the cool stuff, and the lower deck has the second-fiddle scenes. I think it might be more enjoyable having River City and Newark closer to eye-level.

As for Horseshoe Curve, you might consider just naming it something else. Your entire layout is, after all, a flight of fantasy, and you already have major cities (River City, Newark) that don't exist. Besides, there were a number of similar curves to Horseshoe on the PRR (one quite similar to it, IIRC, not far from Horseshoe). This might quell the cries of the purists; plus, I think it suits the theme of the layout better. Your call, of course, but this is what I'd do under the circumstances.

I envy you for your space, your vision, and your opportunity.

[MichaelWinicki]

I would offer one caution, though.  You're biting off quite a chunk to chew there.  If, indeed, you are a lone wolf out there, you might want to think about how much time you want to dedicate to construction and maintenance vs. time actually running trains...

Folks greatly underestimate the amount of time it takes for maintenance... The dusting, vacuuming, track cleaning... My environment is pretty non-dusty, but I'm amazed how fast dust builds up on the roofs of buildings and such.   Then you have all the rolling stock and locos that need assistance from time to time.