So, Bachmann...

[victor miranda]

hi skipgear

Given our long history
I have made it a point to be considerate of your opinions.

so go real easy when you paste your opinions onto me.

Kato kool-aide is an interesting turn of a phrase,
b-mann makes n-scale steamers and kato makes better steamers.

You will be hard pressed to hold a claim of better value.
I can imagine you will try.

If you want to tell me that b-mann locos are good enough
and learn to love them,
you may want to sell that Idea to some one else
because bachmann steam could be a lot better.

victor

[DKS]

b-mann makes n-scale steamers and kato makes better steamers.

You will be hard pressed to hold a claim of better value.

Ah, well, Kato may win in the quality department, but what about product range? How many steamers is it they offer?

[victor miranda]

bachman makes
7 n-scale models and 2 generics

0-6-0
lt and heavy mountain
and the J
and I guess the santa-fe 4-8-4
and the 2-6-6-2
and I think we need to include the old 2-8-0 here

the generics are....
the 2-8-0 and the 2-6-2

kato has made the hudson the s2 the mike and the gs-4

what is worse is that none of the b-mann locos are better
than the Mike.

how many of the b-mann locos are better than the worst kato?

all I can say is thank god for Kato.
I have a nice 0-6-0 because of Kato caboose trucks

b-mann's best loco uses the design from the Kato mike.
Again, Kato showed us the way.

so If you are trying to point out that b-mann
or nothin....

I reply thus:
Kato is the reason you even begin to think b-mann has any merit at all.
 
v


 

[sizemore]

[victor miranda]

hi sizemore,
your opinion is noted.
I'll try to remind you of it later.

victor

[2-8-8-0]

Sorry I started this topic. Ill keep excitement at being able to find what I want, and hoping for more, to myself from now on.

Thanks for clearing up the motors Skip. Learn something new every day.

[Nato]

  I will weigh in on this a little late but here goes. I have been in N Scale /000 for so long I can comment lots of different steam lokies,but Bachmann with both their steam and their diesels keep doing a "we try harder" as they make changes with each run. I had a first run Santa Fe Northern,you know the ones with the plastic valve gear and drive rods. I would run for hours on end ,since it didn't need the tender for pickup there were fewer electricial glitches. Finally a pin came out of a drive rod about a year later and B Person (mann) sent me a whole bunch of replacement parts at no cost. Then they thought they could improve this engine by coping Rivarossi with tender pickup and a copied drawbar. So I purchased one to see if it was better,the rods and valve gear were also now metal.When it ran it was nice,but electrical pickup was terrible. I was happy when version 3 went back to a loco that simply towed the tender along behind. The latest version is the same design. Yes the 2-8-0 os the best B Mann steamer, and I feel 5 pole motors could be used on all their steam locomotives. My 4-8-2's run nicely,but the light ones did have to have the drivers shimmed as mentioned in a previous post to improve pulling. my 2-6-6-2  has been run alot on and off ever since I purchased it with no problemo. I do feel though that it is sort of "Luck of The Draw" or Crap Shoot with Bachmann locos some run good others (same wheel arrangement) are poor right from the box. It is better if you can go to a local hobby shop and they let you track test to get good ones, as sometimes the online dealers do not test before sending to you. Maybe I have been luckey with all the B Mann steamers I have purchased. The best steam locomotive in N in its day was the Arnold Rapido Pacific/Hudson locomotive with a metal boiler that could pull a scad of cars,but there was baisically only three speeds,'Fast Forward", "Rapid Reverse"and "Quick Stop". I could go on about other manufacturers locomotives,but I will save that for some other time or topic.                       Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.

[SkipGear]

Sorry I started this topic. Ill keep excitement at being able to find what I want, and hoping for more, to myself from now on.

Thanks for clearing up the motors Skip. Learn something new every day.

No problem starting the post. It has been entertaining.

Oh, and while we are at it, there is a new most disapointing loco at the top of my list... Kato GS-4.

Mine has now gone through 2 Tsunami decoders as of tonight. I believe I finally figured out the problem. In their effort to make the loco quiet, the vibration issolation motor mount allows the motor to move too much in the cradle. That, along with the fact that the rear flywheel was not pushed on far enough and could rub the frame, constitued a very hard to chase down intemittent short circuit which just took out decoder number two. The first one lasted about an hour, this one, about ten minutes. I have now probed and probed and can not recreate the short. I think I have solved the problem with a combination of gluing one side of the cradle to the frame and re-aligning the flywheels so they are in the middle of their frame pocket, I hope to have it fixed. The first decoder should be back in from Soundtraxx in the next few days, just in time to reuse the box and ship this one off.

[wm3798]

Sound is fun, but way overrated.

The decoders are extremely moody, very touchy electrically, use way more power than is justified by what they contribute to the layout.  I suppose that N trak audiences may enjoy it, but for the home layout operator, it becomes irritating white noise after a short time.

I'm very disappointed that Bachmann has started down this path.  The 2-8-0 was a winner all the way (pending a test drive, of course), and the fact that they are now bogging it down with the inferior Bachmann decoder and tinkering with it to accommodate sound has pushed it out of the price range of a lot of people, and probably screwed up something else along the way.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

I'm not a steam enthusiast so much as a steam curiosity seeker.  I really like the MP Pacific, and the Bachmann heavy mountains I've tried.  The LL Y-3(?) is anemic but a good looker.  I love what Tony did with the Bachmann 2-6-0, and have fondled one at the hobby store, admiring it's price tag if not it's detailing.

To me, the fundamental problem remains the manufacturers clamoring to kiss the dead rear-end of people who just want to drop coin and open a box.  Those of us whose mission is to make something out of nothing are forced to turn to the second hand market, or into the corner where we have to pay for a bunch of features that we really don't care about.

Your Morning Curmudgeon,
Lee

[SkipGear]

The new 2-8-0 is nothing more than the original 2-8-0 with a decoder installed, no sound yet. They have probably moved the decoder to the tender which, even though we now may have to deal with wires, has other benefits. The new H-4 (2-6-6-2) uses the same frame as the older H-5 but with the new tender and decoder relocation, that dead space that was reserved for the decoder in the chassis can now be filled with weight. My H4 went from 3.9 oz. to 4.5 oz. just by filling that area to capaicty with lead. It gained 5-6 cars pulling power by doing this and is up over 30 cars now.

Also, Bachmann is learning. On the H4, the wires are no longer coated with laquer but nice, insulated super flexible wires. No more worries about the loco to tender connection rubbing through the laquer and shorting.

As far as sound goes, I really disagree. I think implimented properly, the sound improves the effect at home, besides, it makes my son smile. Steam especially, done right, adds to the effect. It gives each loco a little more character and sets each apart when running on the layout. It also gives you an audible warning when you are running a loco to fast. I will agree the decoders are much more finiky but this GS-4 is the first problem I have had installing sound. I have done 4 other GS4's with Loksound decoders with no problems.

[Puddington]

Some interesting thoughts here - one thing that stands out is that modelers are no different than most people - we have our "silos" and we occupy them without exception ( the "Kato Kool aider's or the "innovative, 'we try harder" Bachmannites) Let's face it gang - no one is perfect; Bachmann has put out some unmitigated crap; I mean junk.... period. Kato, the "icon" of  scale should have been ashamed of themselves with the GS4 debacle and their subsequent delay in offering a solution.... but NO ONE IS PERFECT....NO ONE.

That said; Kato's record of performance is outstanding and is the standard for n scale. Their record for offerings and re-runs is less than some would like to see. Bachmann's performance is spotty to say the least (for example, my copy of the almost universally loved Spectrum 2-8-0 is a piece of junk) but they are improving. They are also bringing more models to the market; and that is obviously a good thing.

The five pole vs three pole agrument is a tired one. There are some fine models with three pole motors and there are some crappy ones - the quality of the motor and the rest of the locomotive is the issue, not the 3 vs 5 issue. As stated elsewhere, the "cogging" issue has been all but eliminated by some suppliers on their three pole offerings, yet we still see the posts about three pole motor equipped units being infereior. Is this not a serious generalization ?

I am of the school that says more is better; better quality is better and I will be glad to see either. Both at the same time is best but it appears that until Kato has a change of marketing heart and offers 5 more new steamers in the next 24 months or Bachmann hires Kato's design and engineering department and rivals the Mike for quality that we will have to be happy with the status quo.....

or we can keep burning electrons bitching about it..................just my take.

[SkipGear]

One other thing about Lee's comment about more and more added expense on new releases. At least in HO, Bachmann has admitted that things were getting out of hand and leaving the casual modler behind. This most recent catalog now has the Spectrum HO 2-8-0 moved down in the standard line with DCC installed (no sound) and dropped the retail price over $100. The sound units are still offered in the Spectrum line.

[Glenn Poole]

These 2-6-6-2 have not shown up at FRTs or M.B.Kleins yet.  I wonder why?

[2-8-8-0]

Some interesting thoughts here - one thing that stands out is that modelers are no different than most people - we have our "silos" and we occupy them without exception ( the "Kato Kool aider's or the "innovative, 'we try harder" Bachmannites) Let's face it gang - no one is perfect; Bachmann has put out some unmitigated crap; I mean junk.... period. Kato, the "icon" of  scale should have been ashamed of themselves with the GS4 debacle and their subsequent delay in offering a solution.... but NO ONE IS PERFECT....NO ONE.

That said; Kato's record of performance is outstanding and is the standard for n scale. Their record for offerings and re-runs is less than some would like to see. Bachmann's performance is spotty to say the least (for example, my copy of the almost universally loved Spectrum 2-8-0 is a piece of junk) but they are improving. They are also bringing more models to the market; and that is obviously a good thing.

The five pole vs three pole agrument is a tired one. There are some fine models with three pole motors and there are some crappy ones - the quality of the motor and the rest of the locomotive is the issue, not the 3 vs 5 issue. As stated elsewhere, the "cogging" issue has been all but eliminated by some suppliers on their three pole offerings, yet we still see the posts about three pole motor equipped units being infereior. Is this not a serious generalization ?

I am of the school that says more is better; better quality is better and I will be glad to see either. Both at the same time is best but it appears that until Kato has a change of marketing heart and offers 5 more new steamers in the next 24 months or Bachmann hires Kato's design and engineering department and rivals the Mike for quality that we will have to be happy with the status quo.....

or we can keep burning electrons bitching about it..................just my take.

What i was trying (and failing) to say. TY sir.

[Mark5]

The 3 poles still suck. (though they are greatly improved over early incarnations) On every 3 poler I own I can see the cogginess at slow speeds. I like to run my locos "realistically".

The cogginess of 3 polers can be compensated through gearing though.

On a loco like a J they could fit a decent 5 poler in there no problemo.

After years of fooling around with these little motors, you won't convince me that 3 is better than 5.

That said like I previously stated I can get the 3 polers I own to perform acceptably with a nice power pack, but I prefer better than "acceptable".

Also, most people probably won't notice the "cogginess" (this is an assumption, as I seem to be the lone wolf in the 3 vs 5 conversation).

Mark