So, Bachmann...

[DKS]

Seems you get what you pay for. B'mann locos tend to be cheaper, so I would surmise that if they upped their QC, the price would likewise rise. So the cost of QC is handed down to us, and as evidenced by some responses, they aren't all lemons.

But they aren't alone with their problems. I don't know about anyone else, but a buddy of mine has been having a nightmare with is InterMountain cab forward. His first unit ran fine for a couple of hours, then the thing started making a horrible noise, and the drivers on the front engine seized up. He called InterMountain for help, and they sent him a new front engine. But the loco goes together like a Chinese puzzle, and he wasn't able to successfully install it. InterMountain said return it, they'd ship out a new one. The replacement finally arrived, and it doesn't run at all! Completely DOA. Had to ship that one back too. So, after almost two months and about thirty clams in shipping, he still doesn't have a functional cab-forward. With a score of 0 for 2, I'd be wary of getting one myself.

[Mark5]

Seems you get what you pay for. B'mann locos tend to be cheaper, so I would surmise that if they upped their QC, the price would likewise rise.

The Bachmann 4-8-2 USRA Heavy Mountain lists for $275 (the as-built version comes with an incorrect tender!).

The new 2-8-0s are listing for $200.

The newest Kato Mike listed for $160.

This is a trend. They come with DCC now but really ...

[sizemore]

I'm going to have to go with the following:

The third release of the Wallyworld 2-8-8-2 with DCC and Sound is by far my favorite steam loco to date. They just got it right all around. Well worth the $250 clams. The Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-4 Class J I believe is their best loco to date, whoever was running the show on the "dream-team" did it right. If it had sound and a 128 step decoder they would be on par with the Wallyworld. Third would have to goto the Bachmann Spectrum Connie again another "dream-team' winner, however I'd definitely put the Wallyword 0-8-0 next to it as a tie. Fourth would be tie between the Kato GS-4 and the Mikado. The GS-4 has cogging and TT issues, while the Mikado is old and could use an update or two. Fifth would be the Spectrum Heavy Mountain, runs well but the 28 step decoder just flat out blows hindering its performance. Sixth I'd have to say the Wallyworld 2-8-4, its only real problem is the anemic pulling power, but with a cut TT wheel and added weight she will excel into a tie with the Class J.

I have the 2-6-6-2 and the Lt. Mountain. They run alright but not as notable as their other works. I know they are rereleasing the 2-6-6-2 and the Connie with DCC and some minor improvements, but if its the 28 step speed decoder I'll save my samoleans. I have the cab-forward from IM, but I'm not impressed, flashy as it is with all the details, throwing a Mercedes hood ornament on it doesn't hide the performance of a Yugo....

The S.

[victor miranda]

Seems you get what you pay for. B'mann locos tend to be cheaper, so I would surmise that if they upped their QC, the price would likewise rise. So the cost of QC is handed down to us, and as evidenced by some responses, they aren't all lemons.

But they aren't alone with their problems. I don't know about anyone else, but a buddy of mine has been having a nightmare with is InterMountain cab forward. His first unit ran fine for a couple of hours, then the thing started making a horrible noise, and the drivers on the front engine seized up. He called InterMountain for help, and they sent him a new front engine. But the loco goes together like a Chinese puzzle, and he wasn't able to successfully install it. InterMountain said return it, they'd ship out a new one. The replacement finally arrived, and it doesn't run at all! Completely DOA. Had to ship that one back too. So, after almost two months and about thirty clams in shipping, he still doesn't have a functional cab-forward. With a score of 0 for 2, I'd be wary of getting one myself.

does he still have the front engine?
he can make up the 30 dollar loss that way.
v

[DKS]

Seems you get what you pay for. B'mann locos tend to be cheaper, so I would surmise that if they upped their QC, the price would likewise rise. So the cost of QC is handed down to us, and as evidenced by some responses, they aren't all lemons.

But they aren't alone with their problems. I don't know about anyone else, but a buddy of mine has been having a nightmare with is InterMountain cab forward. His first unit ran fine for a couple of hours, then the thing started making a horrible noise, and the drivers on the front engine seized up. He called InterMountain for help, and they sent him a new front engine. But the loco goes together like a Chinese puzzle, and he wasn't able to successfully install it. InterMountain said return it, they'd ship out a new one. The replacement finally arrived, and it doesn't run at all! Completely DOA. Had to ship that one back too. So, after almost two months and about thirty clams in shipping, he still doesn't have a functional cab-forward. With a score of 0 for 2, I'd be wary of getting one myself.

does he still have the front engine?
he can make up the 30 dollar loss that way.
v

No, he doesn't. One thing I noticed I didn't make clear was that when he was unable to install the new front engine, InterMountain asked him to return everything, loco and all, and the replacement loco was DOA. So now he has nothing, he's out the cost of the loco and all the shipping--until he receives something that actually runs.

[Mark5]

You'd think they would at least test run a replacement before shipping it out ...  :

[victor miranda]

I'll avoid other n-scale makers and speak only of b-mann.

You can call them anything you want
the spectrum line has three pole motors and out of round gears
and wobbly wheels and non square frames

so, I see no important differences between the brands.

I am going to condemn b-mann for a simple reason;
they do not care how the loco runs.

They care that it goes.  after that there are no issues.

I know of only one other company that clearly lives by
cheaper is always better.

there are many examples for cheaper is better


how about the wire thumbs at the top of the 2-8-0?

any one here adjusted the wheels on an early 2-8-0?

one piece axle and wheel.  guaging it will jam the trucks.

from there, they just keep getting worse.

how many of you like the driver bearings in the 2-6-6-2?
how about the motors?

was the J any improvement?
the bearings are back, and I have had more people ask me to repair these
than any other b-mann steamer
bad motors and out of round worm gears are quite common.

and then we get to the installed decoders.
the heavy mountain and J are twins
the difference is the decoder.

recently b-mann re-released the 2-6-6-2
they state clearly that all the problems in that mechanism are
not issues that need fixing.


they added a decoder and a knuckle coupler....

I see a trend in the path b-mann is taking.
There is little cause to praise b-mann.
they are doing very little to improve
their products.

victor

[victor miranda]

bummer about the parts.
I was hoping to get them for experiments in improved running

v

[Mark5]

Unfortunately Bachmann has become the flag bearer for 3 pole motors (the original Spectrum 2-8-0 was 5 poles right?).

They ask a premium price these days for a ____ product.

Although overall I am happy with my two N&W Js (appearance wise these are on spot) and I can get them to run decently with fancy electronics - I can still see with my eyes that the motor is coggy at low speeds.

Even Kato now is cheaping out with 3 polers on some locos. :

Mark

[2-8-8-0]

I paid 75 dollars each for my 2-8-0s. 110 for my 4-8-2. 149 dollars for my H-5, and 160 for my new H-4s. I cant complain much (the decoders arent the best, but 160 is a good price for a mallet even if it didnt have a decoder at all). This is a fair price.

The lifelike 2-8-8-2 i have only owned one of, so i cant comment (i never ran it, was going to kitbash it, lost my nerve, and sold it) but it was beautiful. My lifelike 0-8-0 is on the way in the mail (90 dollars) so im looking forward to getting it and seeing how it performs. From what i have heard, i shouldnt be dissapointed.

I have no idea why bachmann still uses 3 pole motors. I also dont know why they wont use traction tires (not a big deal to me, but seems to be an issue to some). Hopefully they straighten this out. 5 pole motors cannot be much more expensive, especially in china.

At the same time, I have never had one of the horror stories (yet) that people talk about. My engines are quiet, run smooth, and havent burned anything up yet. I have gotten locomotives from athearn that required new driveshafts when they were just out of the box.

Theyre trying, and they make locos I like. They seem to be expanding their line. And theyre a whole lot better than they were 10-15 years ago. Not sure why all the hate, and not like we have a ton of options for N steamers. May as well look at the bright side. Id love to get steam from Atlas or Kato, but they dont show any indication of making waves in the steam market.

[FrankCampagna]

Over at the Bachmann N scale forum, the Bach-Man said there will be an new product announcement at the NMRA convention, and "it will be worth the wait."

Frank

[Bob Bufkin]

Wonder if it's the E33 I've heard talk about?

[Puddington]

Over at the Bachmann N scale forum, the Bach-Man said there will be an new product announcement at the NMRA convention, and "it will be worth the wait."

Frank

Victor has been appointed marketing manager for Bachmann ?..now that would be worth the wait.....

[victor miranda]

I think that job would kill me.
hilarious. and painful....


I have been trying to find a nice way to say a bunch
of things in this thread

b-mann's steamers are often close to very good
the small miss often gets the loco all the way to not good.
the lt mountain should be a great loco.
yet it does not make the grade as a good loco.

Most guys rate the heavy mountain as a better loco.
umm If I admit that I understand the reasons...
 will yall agree it can be a better loco
by using a better motor and ditching the lousy decoder?

I do not care what any one says about the 2-6-6-2
it is a whole stack of bad ideas and the usual b-mann quality.
That a loco is a whole lot of work to redeem.

victor
 

[SkipGear]

I have no idea why bachmann still uses 3 pole motors. I also dont know why they wont use traction tires (not a big deal to me, but seems to be an issue to some). Hopefully they straighten this out. 5 pole motors cannot be much more expensive, especially in china.

Bachmann uses traction tires, just not on the loco's you have bought.

2-8-0 has TT and can pull 50+ cars.
4-8-4 Class J has TT and can pull a 15 car heavyweight passenger train without a problem.
4-8-2 Lt. Mountain has TT, it doesn't pull so well without some shiming.
Standard line 2-6-2/0-6-6 has TT and can pull 15 cars when right.

Victor has just been drinking the Kato Koolaid too long. If it wasn't for Bachmann, I wouldn't have half my fleet. Out of all of them, the Lt. Mountain is the only loco that I was really disapointed in, strickly based on lack of pulling power.

The 3 pole vs. 5 pole thing has been hashed and rehashed over at the atlas forum. The reason that 3 pole motors are starting to appear more and more is sheerly based on size and cost to make the motor that size. A smaller motor has less room to wrap the wire on the armature. Less wire on the armature means the motor will run at a higher RPM per volt and create less torque. Now switch over to a 5 pole armature which has even less room to wrap the wire and you get an even faster motor with no torque. You can use smaller wire which will give you more turns on the armature and slow the RPM down but will result in lower power handling. In order to gain performance in small motors, you need to consider going to coreless motors which cost a magnitute more than the motors that are being installed now.

3 pole motors are here to stay to fit in small steam. As long as they skew the armatures, I really don't care. That cures most of the cogging effect, more so than a 5 pole armature does. If you notice, motors in the cab are disapearing and most new designs have a fully detailed cab interior.

I've given up complaining about N steam, we actually have it pretty good. Have you tried to buy an HO Pacific recently, there are none currently available new. We atleast have MP making a Pacific. There is a pretty good variety out there for mainline steam, now we just need the small stuff....4-6-0, 2-10-0, Atlantic, etc.