PRR/Conrail Juniata Division Engineering Report

[Chris333]

Soon as Dave said 2 doors I was thinking 4 track main in the middle. 

[conrail98]

Is there anyway you would be willing to do along the wall shelf layout with the JD acting as a center peninsula? I think that'll give you more bang for the buck. A drop leaf/take-out where the door is would bridge that gap and would give you the much longer run you want,

Phil

[Dave V]

Okay, so muchos problemos with both iterations of the plan.  I measured the room again and I realized Dave has the doors a bit wonky.  There's only 4 feet from the closet door to the hallway door.

Pulling the 4-track bridge scene off the JD at Spruce Creek won't work...  The end of the Spruce Creek bridge is a mere 21" from the end of the door...  Not enough room to have a 15" radius curve come off the layout and have room for two tracks coming in from the tunnel.  I need at least one track to maintain a 15" minimum due to some of my equipment (TOFC, 2-10-0, etc.) and right now that's the outside track on the current JD.

The first iteration also won't work...  The JD would stick 8'4" into the room, conflicting with the 30" wide hallway door that opens inward in a 10'6"-wide door.

An option might be to pull the 18" door off of Lewistown.  I would have to modify the highway overpass, but that's doable.

[DKS]

Pulling the 4-track bridge scene off the JD at Spruce Creek won't work...  The end of the Spruce Creek bridge is a mere 21" from the end of the door...  Not enough room to have a 15" radius curve come off the layout and have room for two tracks coming in from the tunnel.

Actually, it is possible to pull the track off at Spruce Creek; the reason is that the bridge is on an angle. I have carefully calculated the track geometry, using the 21" starting point, and determined there's room for a minimum radius curve in excess of 16". From there I took some other observations into account and made some subtle tweaks. I reworked the left end of the 4-track bridge so that (hopefully) creates the illusion of a "messy" junction, where the staging represents the continuation of the mainline; a highway bridge further obfuscates the tricks being played. And I created more scene separation. All curves are 15" minimum.

[Dave V]

Wow...  I'm in love (with the plan)!

I'm thinking, though, that Ed K's right insofar as it's worth exploring some operational possibilities before I order a schnitzload of track.

Staging suggests 4 though trains or 3 and a local. I wonder if more could (or even should) be done with the new town.

Oh, who am I kidding?  I'm just gonna park some boxcars on the sidings and go full 'roundy-round!   

I like the way you arranged the new town.  I need to think about what it looks like.  Huntingdon and Mifflin come to mind (the Walthers Santa Fe station would make an 80% solution for Mifflin!) but I could listen to the voices and maybe call it Tyrone.

I value Ed's opinion too as he's more of an operator than I am, so I'm sure once he's done with his snowy commute he'll chime in.

[Leggy]

Other than that being a damn nice plan the only suggestion I'd make is possibly adding a siding off the double track main (run around siding) at the new town on the steel fab and scrap side to allow switching of the industries but not impede the mainline allowing trains to circulate. Adds fun to switching having to watch out for run thru trains and having the fuel oil industry on the other side of the main means planned and precise moves would need to be made to reach it without causing a mess.

But yeah, 5 stars from me.

[seusscaboose]

Be careful
Ed likes YARD ops

We rarely let him out on the main without a map and seeing eye dog

[wazzou]

I like the plan. 
You'd have to block your locals in staging.  It's to bad that there isn't some room for a small 2-3 track Division Point or local yard to switch but it doesn't sound like your largely interested in that anyway.

[PRRATSF]

Being from Tyrone the thought of it being a part of the JD are sweet, but, the only switching that was done from the main was the Wilson Chemical Co on the hill opposite the station. Everything else was off the Bald Eagle branch. The station at Mifflin would be a great scene to complement DKS's Lewistown Station. +1 on adding a runaround track at the new town. will have to go back and look at the Triumph Middle Division book, the 4th track was torn out at some point in that area and incorporating that into the design would be interesting.
Sam

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Actually, it is possible to pull the track off at Spruce Creek; the reason is that the bridge is on an angle. I have carefully calculated the track geometry, using the 21" starting point, and determined there's room for a minimum radius curve in excess of 16". From there I took some other observations into account and made some subtle tweaks. I reworked the left end of the 4-track bridge so that (hopefully) creates the illusion of a "messy" junction, where the staging represents the continuation of the mainline; a highway bridge further obfuscates the tricks being played. And I created more scene separation. All curves are 15" minimum.

Ok, this is definitely a step in the right direction! I'm glad my prodding has been helpful.

Bryan's spot on.

With that plan, when you want to operate, you can run the train out of staging on the inside track. Make sure things are blocked generally correctly, then set to work. Work the trailing point industries in Lewistown, work the JC Blair factory, then work the new town. Make sure you put in a good bar next to the crossing where your crew can tie up for "lunch". Then, they can run down to the staging track, do a runaround, and then come back, working the industries coming the other way. However, that town ALSO is screaming for an H&BT interchange track. Or, if you want to go crazy, you could call it Mount Union, and do something else, if ya know what I'm sayin... 

Also, I also don't think you want those crossovers on the bridge, if you're going for the CP Cannon look, keep the crossovers between the mains on each "loop". Crossing streams doesn't actually give you much operational potential but DOES introduce an electrical nightmare.

[Dave V]

Oh, man...! I'm getting giddy like a school girl about this!

The H&BTM interchange is still intact today at Huntingdon in the form of an industrial spur; therefore it works in both eras!

I could even buy a Bachmann 4-6-0 or 2-8-0 and slap "H & B T M" on the tender!

With respect to the crossovers...  Not sure how often I would turn a train.  Loaded coal, for example, will always roll railroad east, with empties west.  You're right, electrical nightmare.  It would add possibilities, just not sure how often I'd take advantage thereof.

Given the space I could conceivably drop a trailing-point stub-end staging track on the inside below the curve just for the local if I keep it 10 cars or less.  Like Ed said, run the trailing points westward from "Enola (staging stub)" and then turn at Huntingdon and work back the facing points.  It would nose in to the local track and need to be re-blocked for the next session.

EDIT:  If I did cut into the inside staging track below the curve I effectively lose half the staging track.

Oh well!  Back to Ed's idea!

[DKS]

Taking Ed's comments into account, here's one last revision for the night--

[Dave V]

Liking the Huntingdon idea.

I've already built JC Blair, so it moves from the current JD over to the new location.

Vulcan, as Standard Steel at Burnham, goes to where JC Blair is (that stupid narrow mountain will finally need to be trimmed).

Huntingdon depot can be kitbashed from DPM parts perhaps.

Need a model of HUNT tower.  That might be hard.  I know Doug Nelson did it.

EDIT:  DKS, almost there!  The fuel dealer spur looks just like the H&BTM interchange at Huntingdon.

[DKS]

The fuel dealer spur looks just like the H&BTM interchange at Huntingdon.

Refresh...

[Dave V]