MTL cars

[wm3798]

My point is that I gave you entry into the inner sanctum of my most sacred workshop, relieved you of $25 worth of Polish, and sent you home with fully functional benchwork.

You are quickly squandering my enthusiasm for your project, because your project appears to be finding reasons NOT to build anything.

You have to absolve yourself of this perceived obligation to 100%, or even 75% fidelity.  You're wasting precious energy on a problem you really have very little control over.

My layout really has very little to do with my chosen prototype.  I've got access to the same models that everyone else has, and the patience and modest skills to tackle a few that can be modified into something closer.

The beauty of N scale is that you can achieve the full flavor of a particular road (Think Mindheim's Monon, Vollmer's PRR, and yes, dammit, my WM) without having to identify every last ingredient.  The overall effect is the effect you're after.  And overall effect is far more than the sum of the individual parts.

My suggestion is to put down some track.  Get some trains running, and build some scenery.  You're using spikes and homasote.  If you need to move something later, it's easy enough to do.  Right now you're in a hole, and with each post, you just keep digging.

Stay off the forum for two solid days, and show us something... ANYTHING on Sunday night.

That's your prescription.  Now take your medicine.

Dr. Vinnie Bumbassa

[JoeD]

I'd let you kiss my ring if it makes you feel better about your transgressions  ;D

Joe
MTL

an airbrush does not solve the problem of grossly inaccurate cars, mis-proportioned dimensions, or fantasy models.  how many Atlas 40' PS-1's with the wrong door need i stomach?

Thou art holy.  I confess that I have sinned against you in Atlas, MTL, and IMRC foobies, by what I have done and by what I have left undone.  Forgive the iniquity of my sin with which I have ever offended you and justly deserve your temporal and eternal damnation.

[sirenwerks]

I have to join Steve's side now, as loathe as I am to do so.    He has a valid point. Like low mileage vehicles and bad TV, we've been forced a product we don't know we want an alternative from because we have minimized awareness of what's available. N scale is lacking in this area.

I might point out that IMRC offers a small selection which, in kit form, have separate bodies (sidewalls as part of a 5-sided box structure), ends, roofs, doors, and end detail. In terms of boxcars, alot can be done with that. Even built cars aren't that hard to pry apart.

Yes, IMRC's collection of doors and roofs could be grown and a 40' double door would be a great addition, but altering the sides and switching out parts is quite easy with its kits. And MT kinda started the ball with a number of separate details and Atlas's 60' auto parts car, with its separate doors and end detail, have helped bring us closer. BUT if more companies would adopt this design style in a significant manner, if for no other reason than to make it easier on the modeler, we would possibly be reaching a point of nirvana. And not just in boxcars. Gondola ends, covered hopper roofs and hatches, etc. are candidates as well. Flat decks that are removable too, and bulkheads. And if parts can't be found on the market, any modeler is free to take up hacking cars apart for parts one at a time or casting parts themselves for multiples.

I know there are at least two rebuttals to more companies adopting the IMRC design concept. Few companies make details to add and a lot of folks just don't care.

To the first point I have two counter arguments. First, adding detail is only half the battle. Removing cast on detail (and on a painted model the paint and lettering with it - which increases the challenge in terms of re-decaling) is more of a challenge in N for a number of reasons. Easing this process would be a blessing, pure and simple. Offering unassembled models, as IMRC does for many of its cars, even more so.

Second... It's obvious that if IMRC added more to its repertoire or if cast or etched detail parts were available from other N-intensive companies, such as TrainCat, or by at least one of the several companies manufacturing HO scale aftermarket parts, then we would certainly be pushing towards that critical mass point where more large scale modelers would seriously look at N and convert.

To the second rebuttal, well, the idea's like new healthcare. If it doesn't take away from those who have, why not make a change to help those who have not. I know making converts of HO scalers is not a profitable venture, but making existing N scale customers happIER with value-added product could be, when their frustration level goes down and they're modeling, and hence buying, more. This shift in design ideals would be serious contribution and wouldn't take away from the modelers who don't want to fuss with such details.

Next, how to win over more decal manufacturers...

[asciibaron]

Stay off the forum for two solid days, and show us something... ANYTHING on Sunday night.

do you think i'm not working on the layout?  i'm not making excuses, i'm busy trying to put together a fleet of cars so i'll have something to run on the layout.  i get a lot of flack for being picky.  i look at cars to make sure they are valid for my era, and now that i have an ORER for 2 weeks after my chosen time-frame, i can be more selective. make fun of me all you want, i'm trying to feel a sense of prototype fidelity.  

i'm not slighting those who do great things.  i don't think we should have to swallow tooling that is 25 years old.  that's the insult, that we don't deserve or want better models.  'here's some cars, now go play trains."

Athearn, Exactrail, Bluford, Deluxe, they are working hard to make models that are realistic, detailed, and cross eras.  


let me know when the new Santa train comes out, i want to put it on my Lionel Santa train.

look for more L&HR updates over the weekend.  i have to borrow my brother-in-laws mitre saw.

[davefoxx]

If it stresses you out so much, why not go back to RC cars?

Seriously, Steve.  Why do you let this bother you so much?  It's a hobby, so relax already.  Geez.  Who's really going to come over to your house and chastise or persecute you for running a foobie.  Look, 99.99% of the people who visit your layout, if you ever get something running, will never ever notice the foobies.  Let it go.  I agree with Dave Vollmer: you are insulting the rest of us who DO accept and enjoy what we are offered by the N scale manufacturers and what we have personally created.  You are also insulting the manufacturers by generalizing all past and current N scale model trains as "toys" and/or "crap."  Enough already.

Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.

DFF

[wcfn100]

Let him get it out, it's just part of the process.  Acceptance can't be too far off now. 

It's not like he's wanting proper brakewheel and running board manufacturers (did you just learn there was more than one???). 

It's such a joke that 'certain people' are/were so upset with the PCM PRR mountain when Bachmann already makes a Mountain.  The two are certainly close enough, or at least as close as many of the MT cars are to their respective prototypes.

You guys really need to pick a side of the fence. 

Jason

[Dave V]

It's such a joke that 'certain people' are/were so upset with the PCM PRR mountain when Bachmann already makes a Mountain.  The two are certainly close enough, or at least as close as many of the MT cars are to their respective prototypes.

Jason

LOL!  Even with 2 months of work I couldn't get more than about 85% converting a Bachmann to an M1...  Driver sizes wrong, wheelbase wrong, boiler different, etc.  That's a pretty good joke there.  I ended up being happy with that 85% because it was 85% more M1 than I had before.  That's kinda the point here.  We do the best we can because 100% is always out of reach.  If Steve keeps on waiting for 100% and bitching to us the whole time, he's going to be unhappy and take us all with him.

[sizemore]

....he's going to be unhappy and take us all with him.

Wrong. We'll play with our trains and laugh! And drink beer. ;D

The S.

[Dave V]

....he's going to be unhappy and take us all with him.

Wrong. We'll play with our trains and laugh! And drink beer. ;D

The S.

Prost!!!

[wcfn100]

If Steve keeps on waiting for 100% and bitching to us the whole time, he's going to be unhappy and take us all with him.

He will realize, as I did, that if it doesn't have a can opener on it or dressed in DGLE, then it all becomes 'close enough' here so you best just keep it within yourself and move on to other topics.

Jason

[oakcreekco]

Slot car racing is the answer.

Build it the way you want it, then wreck it.

Start over again :

[sizemore]

Prost!!!

I call dibs on the blonde up front.

[asciibaron]

If Steve keeps on waiting for 100% and bitching to us the whole time, he's going to be unhappy and take us all with him.

He will realize, as I did, that if it doesn't have a can opener on it or dressed in DGLE, then it all becomes 'close enough' here so you best just keep it within yourself and move on to other topics.

instead of just passing off foobies, i'd rather do the research and learn about the various schemes, classes, why's and where's of off layout lines and equipment.  for me, that's part of the fun - i enjoy knowing things.  and once you know something, it's damn hard to unknow it.  

i have seen it written many times on this site that ride height matters.  so does correct paint schemes and proper trucks.

  

[sizemore]

If Steve keeps on waiting for 100% and bitching to us the whole time, he's going to be unhappy and take us all with him.

He will realize, as I did, that if it doesn't have a can opener on it or dressed in DGLE, then it all becomes 'close enough' here so you best just keep it within yourself and move on to other topics.

instead of just passing off foobies, i'd rather do the research and learn about the various schemes, classes, why's and where's of off layout lines and equipment.  for me, that's part of the fun - i enjoy knowing things.  and once you know something, it's damn hard to unknow it.  

i have seen it written many times on this site that ride height matters.  so does correct paint schemes and proper trucks.

The beef everyone has is that you've plainly stated you're going to throw the baby out with the bathwater because you have to do a little work, its not 110% right outta the box. By your statements REASONABLE == PROTO:160. You knew what you were getting into before you started the layout. You asked a question that you already knew the answer; Microtrains cars, due to their manufacture, ride a little higher. You added that Trainman 40ft cars are crap, but you (and the rest of the world) already knew that too. It really sounds like you're having buyer's remorse opposed to a legitimate question.

Knowing something and accepting something that is close to what you want as you know it are two different animals.

You started this whole layout jazz with operations, not superscale prototypical cars. Now you're adding the requirements after already starting the project....

[bbussey]

an airbrush does not solve the problem of grossly inaccurate cars, mis-proportioned dimensions, or fantasy models.  how many Atlas 40' PS-1's with the wrong door need i stomach?

if i want to paint all my cars, fine, but show me a modicum of decals that i can use.  i'm looking for EL and LV decal sets for 2 bay covered hoppers - can't find them.  i don't have $1000.00 to drop on a decal maker, never mind i don't have the expertise to make them.  if only manufacturers stopped treating N scale like a toy.  sure, it's getting better, but what the hell is wrong with MTL - pizza cutters, really?  30+ years and counting.

I don't understand what your issue is.  If you want prototypically-correct equipment, then model prototypically-correct equipment.  Manufacturers don't treat N scale as a toy, as there are a number of models that sit at or close to the proper height.  There also are additional models which can be easily lowered to the proper height.  Are you going to body-mount couplers?  If you're going to do that, you can lower cars at the same time.  And, if you want RTR models that are 100% accurate to a specific prototype by railroad and series, you'll have a hard time in any scale trying to find that.

Decals won't cost you $1,000.  Micro-Scale isn't anywhere near that for custom work, and there are independent decal makers that would do the work for even less.

Why are you concerned about MTL still offering pizza cutters when there are many viable low-flange alternatives, including from MTL?  As long as you can install LPWs, no matter what brand you prefer, this isn't an issue.  If the trucks are incorrect, there are a lot of different truck types available from various manufacturers, so change them!  What is the big deal?

Fantasy models?  Atlas PS-1 boxcars?  No one is forcing you to buy them, so don't.  But to imply that the overwhelming majority of N scale equipment is grossly misproportioned is specious at best.  Do some modeling - you'll be surprised at what you can do.

I agree with other posts, this is a fabricated issue.  Concentrate on building the layout.  Manufacturing technology will march on in the interim.  When you're ready to run trains, more RTR product to your liking will be available.

But really - if you want to model specific prototypes, do it yourself and don't wait to see if a manufacturer happens to decide on offering the prototype you want.