NS Bethgon weathering

[jsoflo]

I am about to start weathering a NS coal train (N scale) and I am eyeing my silver Kato NS bethgons, pulling proto photos, these apparently look like this:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=832442

I have 2 questions about these:

1) How do these units get that dirty? By contrast the 90 ton black cars stay pretty clean, as do the topgons. Every picture I have been looking at is that brown and black.


2) How would you recommend replicating this weathering? I am thinking of base dullcote followed by burnt sienna acrylic followed by black powder?

my best,
Jan

[cv_acr]

1) How do these units get that dirty? By contrast the 90 ton black cars stay pretty clean, as do the topgons. Every picture I have been looking at is that brown and black.

Coal dust is pretty black and dirty. It'll dirty up a car pretty good, but is not very noticeable on a black car. Those grey top gons do get dirty too. CP used to have some coal gons that the first order was painted red - all the later ones got painted black because the red cars got so dirty they were basically black anyway.

The other thing the Bethgons have going for (against?) them is that they are unpainted aluminum. So the aluminum oxidizes, which does different things than grey paint just getting dirty.

[GaryHinshaw]

Hi Jan.  Looks like a fun project.  I think the scheme you outline sounds good.  I think the only thing I might change is the wash: I'd probably use raw umber instead of burnt sienna, then I'd really go at it with the soot powder, probably mixed with a little bit of dark brown.  I'd also swab the ribs with a damp Q-tip to clean them off a bit.

Be sure to post your results!


Gary

P.S. I'm basing my color commnts on this picture:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1453386

It would be neat to add the conspicuity stripes afterwards.  Otherwise the car will be invisible.

[cv_acr]

Gary: that's a good picture, it's much better lit and shows off the colour of the car much better than the pic in jsoflo's original post. Same car type and series, and same type of weathering, but the backlit photo seems that much darker.

The overwhelming base colour is characteristic of weathered aluminum, which tends towards a slightly brownish grey. Plus some darkening from black coal dust.

For reference, here's a couple other weathered aluminum cars without the addition of the coal dust:
http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cnwx107727&o=wheatboard
http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cnwx107176&o=wheatboard

The middle third of the car and everything else not painted yellow is actually bared, unpainted aluminum.

[jsoflo]

Gary,
 good advice as usual, I nailed 6 of these with acrylic raw umber with a bit of windshield washer fluid and than nailed them with coal dust and dullcote, I'm gonna get some yellow safety stripes on 4 of them and than try and post some pictures, I think they are a decent enough match.

Until I started looking for some prototype photos I had never seen Bethgons that nasty, NS seems to keep their 90 ton black gons pretty clean (easy to tell by the very white logos that are, well, very white) and I had no idea that the Bethgons were unpainted aluminum. As far as I can tell you don't see a great deal of bethgons in eastern Pennsylvania on NS? My videos of the area and magazines always show TopGons and 90 ton gons.

In any event, thanks and my best,
Jan

[GaryHinshaw]

The middle third of the car and everything else not painted yellow is actually bared, unpainted aluminum.

Wow.  Are those hopper sections bright when they're new?  I'm guessing this is due to some combination of oxidation and surface contamination.

Looking forward to the photos Jan [or it didn't happen ].

Cheers,
Gary

[Mark5]

Looks like Kato is trying to use these as NS Class G87:

http://www.krunk.org/~joeshaw/pics/ns/coal-gon/g87.shtml

And a thread with Robbman's take on the Kato Gons vs NS proto:

http://forum.atlasrr.com/archive/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=35960

I don't think the aluminum ever stays shiny very long.

[jsoflo]

Just finished a pair of DI NS bethgons and 4 of my Katos, they came out grungy, just as intended, all comments are more then welcome, thanks!
Jan


http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/s8vNBICOXg0YnGzodkNu8g?authkey=Gv1sRgCLbQgO3Pi6rrCA&feat=directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ypz_cB2uPvWkmRFdtGQFgw?authkey=Gv1sRgCLbQgO3Pi6rrCA&feat=directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/tBX4h_Vu0u4m0BrZXgq_6w?authkey=Gv1sRgCLbQgO3Pi6rrCA&feat=directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bNl2g6FZriclblw-kH_v0Q?authkey=Gv1sRgCLbQgO3Pi6rrCA&feat=directlink

[GaryHinshaw]

I've been looking forward to seeing how these turned out -- I like them!,  especially the extent to which the NS logo shows through (and the conspicuity stripes).   My only comment is that there seems to be a wee bit of sheen left on the finish.  Have you hit these with chalks or powders?  Looking back at the proto photo, I would be tempted to hit them with a light dusting of greyish-black powder to give it that dead flat look.  Not enough to obscure any more, just enough to change the surface finish.  Also, I think it would be neat to scrub the outer surface of the ribs a bit, if you can.

These will look great in a train.  How about a runby? 

Best,
Gary

[Robbman]

They were shiny when new... but aluminum oxidation and coal dust do not mix well at all.  They, along with the G83s, ran in dedicated Kopperston service for many years before finally getting mixed in with the rest of the fleet.

[jsoflo]

Gary,
thanks, and yes I agree, I had noticed they were a bit shiney, I am not sure they were hit with a sufficient cote of dullcote after decals or planning for decals on the ones I did not safety stripe, I had glosscoated them for decal application. I will hit them again with powder and dullcote.
I have them mixed in on a planned PPLX coal train. I have a video of the NS Harrisburg line showing an NS PPLX run-by, with a mix of Topgons, PPLX, NS, Conrail and a lease company (I forget the name right now) 90 ton 3 bay hoppers, and a couple nasty looking NS Bethgons sprinkled in. There are 3 NS coal trains in the video, none have very many NS bethgons in them, and I also have a video with several NS Bow, NH coal trains, which seem to be all 90 ton hoppers. Looks like these will be sprinkled into mixed coal service and no unit service (just as Robb indicated was the case).

4 more of these to do before I attack the power for this train with the weathering stuff (Kato NS SD70 and an Atlas Conrail dash-8 widecab and maybe an SD60-- but they run like crap :) than, maybe a run-by!

thanks for the help,
Jan

[tom mann]

Here is what I'd do:

1.  Airbrush the car an offwhite color to get the black NS logo and printing a weathered black color.
2.  Airbrush the car Engine Black / Dirt mixture (maybe roof brown instead)
3.  Airbrush the car with Dirt

(all colors polly scale)

For 1 and 2, airbrushing should be done with a heavily thinned mixture - like 50%.  When sprayed, the airbrush should feel like it is spraying plain water.  Three would be done with a less thinned mixture - just a few drops of distilled water in a color cup 1/2 full with Dirt.  This will give the car the matte look.

Maybe follow up with a wash of ivory black around the detail areas.

[GaryHinshaw]

Will step 3 really dry dead flat?  I'll have to look into that.

[cv_acr]

Maybe follow up with a wash of ivory black around the detail areas.

What the heck kind of colour is "ivory black"? Ivory is white.

[tom mann]

Will step 3 really dry dead flat?  I'll have to look into that.

Yes it does.  It's a good way to replicate a chalk covering.