Conrail's Allegheny Crossing as NTRAK Modules

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Dave Foxx, there is already a mechanism, the bottom of the legs have bolts that can be turned to adjust to make the modules level (or not).

And Tim, I think you have to bribe someone for a "module offset"

I'm sure we won't beat you up over it.

But I do want to make sure that we have a good mix of scene and non-scene modules.

[GonzoCRFan]

I have an already-built oNetrak frame that I have no plans for, but I guess that settles it.

I do want to point out that doing grades by shimming or leveling bolts is gonna be dicey at best. A 1% grade over a 4' module is about half an inch of rise...so if we were gonna go for broke we would need a lot of shims or some long-a$$ leveling bolts.

[inkaneer]

I wish I had half a chance in hell of being a part of this...  Until I'm only ONE day's drive from the rest of you I'll have to drool from the corn belt.  Now, once I get a better idea of where I'm going next I could start work on some modules (if it's close)...  By then you may be ready for Johnstown or Huntingdon!

Don't worry Dave, According to my research materials, from Alto [MP 236.7]to Cresson [MP 251] is 14.3 miles and 900 feet in elevation.  Cassandra is another 5 miles west.  They need 160 four foot modules to cover that 19.3 miles and at least a similiar number of modules for the other side of the layout.   That 900 feet of elevation translates to about 67.5 inches so if they start at say 40 inches above the floor at Alto then Cresson will be 67.5 inches higher or almost nine feet high.  This thing will need a convoy to haul to a set up and these guys won't have to worry about setting up with an Ntrak group at a show.  By the time they set up the show will be over and the Ntrak guys gone.

[Hiroe]

So let it be blogged, so let it be done: http://milepost242.blogspot.com/2009/07/standards.html

We're also going to need corners.

I can do a batch of those. They'll be 30* segments of a 6' radius math, with curved inner and outer faces. They'll only be 12" deep, but as i plan to build them as fully reversible, the trade off should be worth it for the additional flexibility. They won't be models of anyplace specific, either.


For leg adjusters, i've been using 6" eyebolts for feet. They normally have 4" of thread travel, and the eye gives you a good place to jam a screwdriver to use as a turning handle if they stiffen up.

Edit: Since ed's a tool and hasn't thought it through, let me ask here: Have we settled on actual placement of the mainlines on the straight modules? If they're up towards the front similar to Ntrak presentation, or if they're centered on the module to give good scenery coverage on both sides of the track, this will change the math of how the corners are built.

-Drew

[wm3798]

I'm planning to put mine in the middle with a long gentle curve between the tangents at the joint with the next set.  Probably end up with 12' on my dime.  Fortunately the scene I've chosen includes zero turnouts, and is primarily trees and ground foam.  The electrical stuff below decks will be the most expensive part of the project. 

The One Trak spec gives you some latitude on where the tracks fall vis a vis the front edge, and the Bantrak RP is to put them at the center.

Lee

[sizemore]

I'm planning to put mine in the middle with a long gentle curve between the tangents at the joint with the next set.  Probably end up with 12' on my dime.  Fortunately the scene I've chosen includes zero turnouts, and is primarily trees and ground foam.  The electrical stuff below decks will be the most expensive part of the project. 

The One Trak spec gives you some latitude on where the tracks fall vis a vis the front edge, and the Bantrak RP is to put them at the center.

Lee

It may be best to let one individual do CAD drawings of the complete module setup from END to END. That way we have a guideline with no guesswork.

Next thing to address is track, and scenery standards.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Track standards? Since we're doing it NTRAK Transitional (http://htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/doctype.html for the joke), I think we should go for the Atlas 55. Multiple turnout geometries (Alto or Slope using #10s? yes please...).

Scenery standards? How about "DON'T LET IT SUCK"?

I think part of the key to it is making sure that the scenery is indeed high-end. I know that not everyone is there yet, and that's cool, but part of this is a learning experience, so I'm volunteering to help, and I bet I'm not alone in that.

I think we need to avoid the initial urge to just "clump foliage everything", and really spend some time and effort on this. In this aspect, the mini-modutrak guys have it absolutely right. I think they've set the bar. I'm sure we can match it (without going broke on Silflor...).

[AlkemScaleModels]

This is a scan of John Drye's design for a modular rendition of the east slope.  He gave me approval to post it.





My earlier drawing was a refinement of the Gallitzin to Allegripus section.

W/re to the grade issue, with a 1 percent grade you'll gain about a half inch per 4 ft module. So over 14 4 ft module equivalents, you gain about 7 inches in elevation. That should not be unmanageable, even in an NTRAK layout.

One cool thing about this design is that the Gallitzin module could act as a return loop. Thus only one additional one would be needed at the other end. A return  loop could be made with a standard junction module and three corners. These could be borrowed from an existing NTRAK club until a dedicated loop can be built.

One other thing, I am now sold out of the PRR signal lights first run. I am working on getting a second run made, but it will take some time. Thanks to all that supported the first run. I am open to suggestion on how one would improve the design.

[jsoflo]

I have an already-built oNetrak frame that I have no plans for, but I guess that settles it.

I do want to point out that doing grades by shimming or leveling bolts is gonna be dicey at best. A 1% grade over a 4' module is about half an inch of rise...so if we were gonna go for broke we would need a lot of shims or some long-a$$ leveling bolts.

Maybe an easier way to handle that is to have several different sizes of standard legs available. If there is a standard construction and standard leg size and type for the whole layout, the club could also carry a sack of legs that are longer in intervals with adjustability. Let me give an example: we in FEC use a closet rod leg that fits insoide each corner of the module in a pocket that has an eyebolt that screws into it to pin it in the pocket. At the floor end of the leg there is another adjustable eyebolt to add or subtract 3-4" and standard leg size is for example 52"  We have extra legs we carry in tent pole sacks for camping. Why not also carry (for this example) 54" 56" and 58" and 60" legs with the same 3-4" adjustment? Then legs would be micro-adjustable and no need for shimming or woodblocks, just start with the standard, start adding your 4" adjustment in, than go to the next size up etc.

[sizemore]

Track standards? Since we're doing it NTRAK Transitional (http://htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/doctype.html for the joke), I think we should go for the Atlas 55. Multiple turnout geometries (Alto or Slope using #10s? yes please...).

Scenery standards? How about "DON'T LET IT SUCK"?

I think part of the key to it is making sure that the scenery is indeed high-end. I know that not everyone is there yet, and that's cool, but part of this is a learning experience, so I'm volunteering to help, and I bet I'm not alone in that.

I think we need to avoid the initial urge to just "clump foliage everything", and really spend some time and effort on this. In this aspect, the mini-modutrak guys have it absolutely right. I think they've set the bar. I'm sure we can match it (without going broke on Silflor...).

It may be better that during a test fit we do a "scenery" fit. That way scenery base is consistent, then from there we can move onto what practices/products to adopt.

[Hiroe]

Lee: So you'd be building your Cassandra set as a group of 3 4-footers, with the end pair bringing the mains back to perpendicular to the ends?

Personally, i still vote for putting all the tracks at 1" spacing, so people can model track 3 if they so desire. (Also makes it easier for reversible corners; that way i don't have an unequal spacing issue, or have to mentally justify why track 4 on the straights is track 3 on the corners).

Track, i'd love to be able to use those nice atlas turnouts.

One cool thing about this design is that the Gallitzin module could act as a return loop. Thus only one additional one would be needed at the other end. A return  loop could be made with a standard junction module and three corners. These could be borrowed from an existing NTRAK club until a dedicated loop can be built.

One other thing, I am now sold out of the PRR signal lights first run. I am working on getting a second run made, but it will take some time. Thanks to all that supported the first run. I am open to suggestion on how one would improve the design.

Such a dedicated return loop already exists. No need to build another!

Design improvement for signals: Sell them with a plug incorporated into the base, and matching sockets that install in the layout. That way they can be removed for track cleaning/module transport/easy replacement and maintenance.

--Drew

[AlkemScaleModels]

One other thing, I am now sold out of the PRR signal lights first run. I am working on getting a second run made, but it will take some time. Thanks to all that supported the first run. I am open to suggestion on how one would improve the design.

Such a dedicated return loop already exists. No need to build another!

Design improvement for signals: Sell them with a plug incorporated into the base, and matching sockets that install in the layout. That way they can be removed for track cleaning/module transport/easy replacement and maintenance.

--Drew

Good idea. How long should the wires be to the plug be? if you mount on a signal bridge, you'll need some fairly long wires.

Got a suggested plug/socket to use?

[AlkemScaleModels]

Ed,

Here is a diagram of my Afton oNeTRAK Module set for your planning purposes.

[Hiroe]

Good idea. How long should the wires be to the plug be? if you mount on a signal bridge, you'll need some fairly long wires.

Got a suggested plug/socket to use?

The signals i've modded/installed in several layouts, i usually use an 8-pin dip socket. I pick the milled-pin ones that are fully stackable (instead of the folded-pin ones), and use epoxy to pot the plug side directly into the base of the signal mast.

Bridges, i build the bridge itself as a solid unit with the masts/heads, and put the plugs in the footings for the bridge. Not *quite* as easy to swap out, but it *does* make it easier to take to the bench for repairs.

For the project at hand, i'd actually suggest standardizing the signalling throughout the module groups, so that if something gets franged, we can drop in a replacement right away.

--Drew

[keystonecrossings]

One other thing, I am now sold out of the PRR signal lights first run. I am working on getting a second run made, but it will take some time. Thanks to all that supported the first run. I am open to suggestion on how one would improve the design.

Merchandise Service has some of Bernie's signal heads still in stock...

https://shop.pennsyrr.com/product.php?productid=17254&cat=0&page=1