A Brief Rant,Walthers Passenger Trains

[Nato]

  I see that Walthers is announcing the New York Central 1948 20th Century Limited in HO, which brings me to my rant. Will we ever get the GN Empire (umpire) Builder in N. I think not, I have created two usuing Con Cor cars, & Brass Car sides sides and Bachmann full dome cars. One train is Orange & Green other Sky Blue, even purchased IM Blue locos for that train. I would Love Luv Love to see the Hiawatha in N ,will that ever happen, naw! I don't think so. And now they are releasing it in the later UP colors,having a few of the coaches and baggage cars to run with my Onions Pathetic City of Everywhere train sure would be nice. Walthers did a great job on their N sleeping car (execpt for the decals) why can't they consider doing one of their complete trains in N they have all the plans for the cars,I know it costs to do the tooling, but I'am sure there would be a sellout. Besides the trains are sold as individuel cars not in sets like expensive brass. Railway Classics has cancled all the N Brass sets I was intrested in,Empire Builder, North Coast Limited, Canadian,which I probably couldn't afford anyway. Lastly I hope against Hope that we will atleast get the nice (no Extra Nice) Milwaukee station and platforms in N.        Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.

[asarge]

Nate,

Mainly because Kato and CC are beating them to the punch. Kato did piece together the Empire Builder from existing tooling, but I donb;t know how accurate it was to a specific era. The BL is actually getting a new car which kinda surprised me. CC seems to be going after specific trains with specific equipment. The new Walthers HO catalog had no really new stuff except for a new car or 2 for the Century. Beyond that, no new tooling that hasn;t already been announced. The N scale catalog will probably be the same. It's gonna be quite a dry spell in either before we hear about anything new from Walthers.

Which means we'll have to count on Kato or CC to do specific consists.......at least for the foreseeable futire.

[Nato]

    Kato's Empire Builder was (is) not accurate only the RPO car and the Obs car are close to GN prototypes, the rest of the cars are modeles of UP cars and the RPO is actually a UP car (GN's were similar) and the observation car a Pre War pullman pool car that ended up in SP service, but the 1947 GN cars were quite similar. Kato did get smart after doing their first Budd cars baised on pre war and post war Burlington cars, and decided to do accurate trains like they have been doing for Japanese Railroads, I have a nice "Hato Aodaisho" in Mint Green with matching EF 58 electric locomotive so it was only natural that they would do the California Zephyr to test the waters. This proved so popular that several reruns followed ,then the Super (Pooper) Chief and now the Daylight,but I'am sure Walthers realizes that Kato's GN train is inaccurate, that no one has done the Hiawatha in N execpt expensive brass Olympian HI train and that there is no accurate NYC 20th Century postwar train in N ,because they are now realizing the popularity of N by finally releasing one of their HO cars in N so why not go the extra mile and do a complete train. Yes Kato might just do them first if they do not. Nate Goodman (Nato).

[jmlaboda]

"Mainly because Kato and CC are beating them to the punch. Kato did piece together the Empire Builder from existing tooling, but I donb;t know how accurate it was to a specific era."

That's just it... none of the Kato cars are accurate.  And while CC has done a couple of cars based on GN prototypes the quality is so poor (because the dies are way too old to be used these days because of their lack of quality) they are hardly worth using.

"...the observation car a Pre War pullman pool car that ended up in SP service..."

Yes, two were built by Pullman and transferred with the Pullman divestiture to Espee, one of which was an aluminum car.  New York Central also got three of this type of sleeper which it later sold to B&O.

[asarge]

Walthers doesn't really care whether the EB was done accurately by anybody, nor any of the other passenger trains for that matter. They are basing those decisions on whether or not they can make a profit on doing the actually correct consist. The one question they will ask is whether they can recoup costs quickly or at all by doing a specific train. My guess is they may not think they can.

That doesn't mean they won't do a specific train, but they might do one where they can use several of the cars for other trains. Also may not be completely accurate but if they think it'll sell, they might try.

Right now I have a bad feeling about new tooling coming out of them in the near future. The baggage car won't show up until next year some time and an educated guess says it's not problems with tooling.

[Puddington]

(.....this won't be popular........... so what else is new?)

.....and hands up those of you that expect that, with certain very rare exceptions, any passenger project released by a major mfg will be 100% correct ?...........Hands down those who should know better... go back and take your pills..........Yep; Kato's EB is a sham; so to many of their older offerings..... Con Cor's stuff.... a Santa Fe/ UP cornacopia... but for 90% of their liveries - a joke; and let's not even venture into HW's.......yet there is hope........................

Kato is "breaking the mold' with their newest releases - they are attempting prototypically correct consists to go with their new loco's........ a hearty well done and good luck - I, for one, am impressed.

But the economic reality is that for someone to make a buck in the passenger car industry they have to move more cars then they can in the narrow realm of prototypically correct liveries.... research, planning; molds, casting, finshing; painting; packaging; shiping; customs; logitisics; delivery and the certain attacks of those who have nothing better to do than look for the third rung of the B end step rivets that are missing the mfg code...........how dare the cad's...........( the boards and individuals to whom I am aiming this comment at will know who they are..............)

Rapido; Walthers; Wheels of Time:............ it's a new day for n scale passenger....... are they going to produce "stand in's"; "close too's";.. "foobies";..... "wanna be's"...............damn right they are - they got bills to pay..... and it hurts no one.....

I for one am thankful for their efforts.....I wish the brass sides compnaies would see this as a benefit as opposed to a threat ( hey, a "close car" is easier to modify with sides...............) I am sick and tired of the " my road never had plan 123-456 sleepers; we had 124-334 sleepers; the windows are 1 scale ft off; the third rung is missing and where are my lateral door handles..... please; just get over it or make the modifications yourself....

I've been building CN and CP passengers cars for years - I do "my best".... not perfect ( as many perfect rivet counters love to point out) but they are mine.... hey, noise makers, show me yours...........or shut up. New products give us both what we want - it gives me a new model to build upon and you another model to slag... maybe we should get a case of beer and celebrate our joint victory....?

I celebrate the new stuff; I note the foobies; I accept their need to exist and I move on to asking " what I can do with this".............. I usually find an answer that doesn't include wine and bitch about their existance.............

This is posted with no malace aforethought to the previous posts - it just made me think..................anyway; flame me to death - it makes me feel warm all over...............

[jmlaboda]

"They are basing those decisions on whether or not they can make a profit on doing the actually correct consist."

Well, one thing is certain and two things are for sure... Walthers' feet dragging is going to hurt them dearly in the very near future and by the time they get their heads out of their collective back sides there may not be enough market to make any passenger trains in N, because of them pissing around about getting anything done.

One of the very things that was suppose to happen when they purchased the Life-Like line was to bring out heavyweight.  With Micro-Trains being less than a year away from having their first heavyweights released (and some sturrings as well about someone else doing some) there may be no market at all for Walthers and they will have no one to blame but themselves.

Yes, I am not totally against Walthers, especially so given the locomotives that they have been releasing.  The steamers are really nice and they fit in a number of areas where steam was needed in N-scale, but other models that need to be brought out or rereleased (especially stuff that Life-Like hadn't released in quite some time before Walthers' take over), if they continue to drag their feet, won't matter if someone else desides to do the same sort of model, only better.

Walthers needs to take N-scale seriously because there is a big untapped market out there.  But it won't remain that way for much longer and if they miss the boat it will be their losses not profits that will be to their shame.

[asarge]

One of the very things that was suppose to happen when they purchased the Life-Like line was to bring out heavyweight.

Huh? I don;t know where that started and I doubt that one of the reasons for them to purchase LL was to get HW's on the N scale market. To be honest I'm not sure they even have plans to get the HW's out in N.

I wholeheartedly agree that they may be falling behind. I would suspect that the lack of new announcements this year hasn't helped and the reasons are economic. od story but probably true. I was told in May that they were looking at how and what they announce and changes were coming. That may turn out to be the understatement of the year.

[FrankCampagna]

Huh? I don;t know where that started and I doubt that one of the reasons for them to purchase LL was to get HW's on the N scale market. To be honest I'm not sure they even have plans to get the HW's out in N.

 

I thought there was talk of them doing heavyweights a year or more ago.

Frank

[3rdrail]

Huh? I don;t know where that started and I doubt that one of the reasons for them to purchase LL was to get HW's on the N scale market. To be honest I'm not sure they even have plans to get the HW's out in N.

 

I thought there was talk of them doing heavyweights a year or more ago.

Frank

Oh, I have no doubt there was talk of Walthers doing heavyweights, but no one from Walthers was part of the conversation. All Walthers has said was that if the N scale 10 and 6 was successful, more passenger cars might follow, with no reference to type.

[Bob Bufkin]

Well, with the exception of their decals being too thick, I think they hit a homerun with the 10-6 cars.  I'm just hoping that their next car is one which was used by a majority of railroads.  A 4-4-2 would be a good choice for Pullman type cars.  Any streamlined couch which was used by alot of roads would also sell well, as not everyone wants to model overnight Pullman type trains.  We really need a combination coach, baggage car.

[FloridaBoy]

I think Walthers is beginning to tale N scale a little more seriously than it has in the past.  I think HO is not real receptive as it used to be to Walthers product line, and they see a definite void in N.  The problem is that we are a fussy scale, as we are all pretty hard core modelers, most of us either viciously into collecting or building a layout or making highly detailed shelf models, or building for a future layout.  Our forums are loaded with people complaining about the lack of performance of one product or another, while the overall level of quality is sky high compared to just a few years back. 

So they are careful, at least in my opinion.

There is a void of passenger cars and moreso passenger sets, with only a few companies, like Kato and ConCor who do not produce as many passenger cars now, which whets our appetite.. I feel the pain, too, so I load up on anything decent I see at swap meets.  I too, love Great Northern, although a Pennsy modeler, but a close friendship with a mentor opened my eyes to Milwaukee, Great Northern and other midwest roads.  Years ago I purchased a Kato Northern, a Hudson and a set of F3's in GN, and scoured the swap meets and train shows for GN passenger varnish.  I have ended up with a few ConCor passenger cars, smoothside, which are well detailed and esquisitely painted.  I still look for more, even though they run through my Pennsy scenery, but on a visit there in late years, the scenery in the midwest isn't that different from western Pa. 

Be acceptable to used ConCor and Atlas passenger cars, and when you get your bonanza, just add them.  I have a zillion pictures of passenger consists from all roads, and it seems that no two passenger cars are in the same livery and condition.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

[Bob Bufkin]

You want a mismatch of passenger equipment, check out BN right before Amtrak.  All kinds of different equipment in different colors. 

[jmlaboda]

"Huh? I don;t know where that started and I doubt that one of the reasons for them to purchase LL was to get HW's on the N scale market. To be honest I'm not sure they even have plans to get the HW's out in N."

The conversation is somewhere in the N-scale Varnish List archives and it was way before any 10-6 was released in HO, let alone N.  Will try to find it and come back with the link later today.

[jmlaboda]

Found the message aboput Walthers doing heavyweights that I received and it was from someone involved in the industry, who had verified it with several other people who were apparently close to the source.  The email dates back to 2006 and stated that no sort of announcement likely wouldn't come until at least 2008 since Walthers already had so many projects on the board.

He is not a member of this forum but I do not think he was the only one who had mentioned it to me... but finding who the other one was is kind of difficult.  Will keep looking to see what I can find.