I hate train organizations

[John]

I decided not to go to the Louisville convention this summer with a module, simply because they have a policy that you can not be in the layout room, after setup on Thursday and Friday, even if you brought a module, unless you register for the convention.

I too will probably drop some organizations that I belong to this year ..

[wm3798]

Yes, yes, we've all been in a club where some one or group of someones expects to have their ring kissed before anything gets done.  We've also been in groups where nothing gets done, but there sure is a lot of energy expended on complaining that nothing gets done.

I rarely go the Delmarva Club anymore, mostly because of my schedule.  I enjoy working on and running on the HO layout, those guys are pointed in the same direction I am...  But I still get dispeptic looking at the N scale layout that is being squandered there.  I'm glad I have a layout in the attic, and I'm glad I've cobbled together a group of regulars who don't mind paying the $2.50 to cross the bay to run trains with me.

Speaking of which, I think I need to set up another session soon... ;D
Lee

[Catt]

Free Ride? Send them a bill for your Free Ride.The NMRA in my part of the world should be called the National HO Model Railroad Asscciation.

[TiVoPrince]

PCR/NMRA
was that way back in 1978/1979 when I chose to run screaming into the night and vow to never return.  I chose to volunteer for other more friendly organizations.  The NMRA has always been far more exclusionary than inclusionary in my personal experiences...

[POVC]

i quit several model train clubs over the years because of the petty politics - and now it looks like i'll be letting my membership lapse with another one - which is a shame, i really like many of the members *cough cough*

-steve

Guess that means I shouldn't expect to see your membership renewal check anytime soon...

Tim

[Denver Road Doug]

Well, my take is, if you are going to benefit from the convention at all, you should pay.  If you show up, run the auction, and leave, maybe not.  But the second you meander around to enjoy the displays, fellowship, clinics, etc. then you need to pony up.

Otherwise, you get everyone in the organization volunteering for one event to get a free pass and there's no money to make the convention a success.

Having said that, I'm certainly no fan of the NMRA.  We had a really nice divisional group in my area and I participated for a couple of years, but I got tired of n-scale being looked at like it was a novelty and "cute" but not really worthy of mention.  That and the n-scale members getting publicly chastised by the Regional president for not buying 3 of every n-scale convention collector car.  (seriously, at the formal dinner during his "state of the union") There's all kinds of other crap I dealt with, but those were the major issues.

That's one thing that's kinda irked me about n-scale...there's not really an organization for n-scalers.  There's the N-Scale Collectors group (I'm not a collector) and N-Trak. (I'm not a "trakke", and don't have any modules, nor do I intend to)  I did belong to an n-scale club for a while and really enjoyed that, but I moved and wasn't able to make the meetings enough to justify the fees, even though they really weren't much.  Like many of you have alluded to, I'm content hanging with a few fellow n-scalers (and occasionally even a few pretty cool HO'ers) and living life as an outsider.

[shark_jj]

The nub of this thread is whether volunteers should pay at events at which they are both volunteers and attendees.  I was one of the organizers of the NMRA National Convention in Toronto in 2003, and all of our volunteers paid to attend.  This year I am one of the organizers of the Canadian Association of Railway Modellers Convention in Hamilton on the Victoria Day Weekend, and all of our volunteers are paying.  Model Railroad organizations are for the most part not deep pocket organizations.  Either a national organization or local volunteers or both, take a financial risk to put on a convention that allows the rest of us to get together to enjoy the social and modelling activities that such events bring.  Very few of these conventions turn a "profit" of any significance.  The decision to volunteer is one of "giving" not "getting".  I noted with interest that one organization which did turn a profit then turned around and refunded admissions to volunteers which I thought was novel and is something I haven't seen done before and rather than criticizing them, I would laud them for their initiative. 

The other aspect of this thread is the NMRA.  Most people either love them or hate them.  They are certainly not N Scale friendly.  Either way, they have made a significant contribution to the hobby over the last 70 or so years which you have to respect.  That being said, they are not my cup of tea which is why after running their National Convention we broke away to form the Canadian Association of Railway Modellers.  They are a good example of what happens when an organization get big, gets assets which must be managed, and needs a constant flow of revenue to keep everything maintained and running:  You get politicians.  That is neither a good thing, or a bad thing, it just is. 

Someone mentioned the lack of a National N Scale organization.  I am not sure that is true.  It doesn't have structure, it doesn't have a head office, it has no officers, but it seems to exist, out here in cyberspace on Forums like this.  Since I switched to N Scale I have made more friends and acquaintances out here on the Net than I made in 30 years in HO in the NMRA.  I travel a fair bit on the East Coast and that has given me the opportunity to meet a number of them.  What I like about N Scalers is that it seems all you have to do is ask and they are happy to have you visit.  I reciprocate and have had numerous visitors to see my layout.  I enjoy it, I have contact and friendships without the need for dues or structure.  N Scalers seem to simply enjoy the hobby more and don't have the same level of competitiveness that I found in HO, which may be driven by the whole MMR thing, and when they visit are less nitpicky about the layout than those in other scales.  Reminds me of a recent visit by several N scalers and an HO guy.  I remarked that I was trying to accurately replicate the Altoona area on the PRR and the N Scalers and I were having an interesting discussion when the HO guy interrupted to ask why if I was striving for accuracy why the 60 hoppers on a coal train only had 5 numbers on the hoppers.  In my mind, it was a question only an HO guy would ask.  N scalers would simply enjoy seeing a 60 car coal train making its way around the Horseshoe Curve.  I think we view the hobby differently.

Anyway, my apologies if I have annoyed anyone, I think this turned into a bit of a run on rant. 

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Any man who builds Altoona gets a pass on a rant every once in a while

Let that be a lesson to Ian too... quitter.

[chuck geiger]

N Scaler's are twisted that's why I'm here.

[shark_jj]

Ed, I spent most of this winter working on decoders for locos and installing switch machines so there was nothing to post by way of photographic progess, however, since I will be open for the convention, I have started building mock ups of the buildings between the Passenger Car Erecting Shops and Alto.  Everything will have to be scratchbuilt or kitbashed and I am working only from photos so the mockups give me a sense of scale when I look at them.  It is going to be a case of it looks right, then it is right.  Hopefully, in a couple of weeks I will have enough of this mock up done to post some photos of what the area is going to look like.

[John]

Well, my take is, if you are going to benefit from the convention at all, you should pay.  If you show up, run the auction, and leave, maybe not.  But the second you meander around to enjoy the displays, fellowship, clinics, etc. then you need to pony up.

We will just have to disagree .. I drive 700 miles to bring modules, which will go into their layout, which they will charge the public for to see, then tell me that I have to leave right after I put my module into the layout .. unless I register .. I think not .. I have no problem paying for the convention . if I wanted to participate in that stuff .. its not a matter of the money,  but the principle .. I hope they have a good show ..

[chuck geiger]

OK I have a meeting with the consortium Saturday. Check which applies:

A) Tell them to take the prizes and stick them

B) Kiss a$$ and pay the money and be a good train boy

C) Say nothing and see if they even remember all of this

D) Other

[chuck geiger]

Well, my take is, if you are going to benefit from the convention at all, you should pay.  If you show up, run the auction, and leave, maybe not.  But the second you meander around to enjoy the displays, fellowship, clinics, etc. then you need to pony up.

We will just have to disagree .. I drive 700 miles to bring modules, which will go into their layout, which they will charge the public for to see, then tell me that I have to leave right after I put my module into the layout .. unless I register .. I think not .. I have no problem paying for the convention . if I wanted to participate in that stuff .. its not a matter of the money,  but the principle .. I hope they have a good show ..

Dude that's like letting them hit you with a board.

[Chulvis]

OK I have a meeting with the consortium Saturday. Check which applies:

A) Tell them to take the prizes and stick them

B) Kiss a$$ and pay the money and be a good train boy

C) Say nothing and see if they even remember all of this

D) Other

Chuck:

B) minus the A$$ kissing. Take this experience at face value. If it doesn't work for you then just move on.

A - gets you nowhere
C - No, they won't remember, don't even go there.

I must admit I was somewhat chagrined this week when I received in the mail from them a letter with an offer to advertise in their convention flyer for anywhere from $25.00 to $200.00 despite the fact that I had made what I consider to be a substantial product donation to them for this event. I'm not asking for anything in return, I did what I did to support the hobby and the PCR and never gave it a moments thought until I got that letter the other day. It just seems to me that just a little give back to those that support you, a sign of appreciation, would not be a bad idea and would encourage people to donate again next year.
I tossed the letter in the trash.

[FrankCampagna]

Ordinarily, I have no problem with volunteer organizations expecting volunteers to pay their own way. After all, that means more money for the cause. My experience with the NMRA, however, is different. Back when I was a member, they paid off the mortgage on their new HQ building (after constantly dunning their members for help, and refusing to tell members how far along the payments were).

Membership had gone up 25% in a few years, and they had a very successful program of private road special run cars. Their finances were probably never better. At that point, they raised their membership fee, 33% if I recall. With that, I walked out the door. Yes, money grubbing seems an appropriate term for the NMRA. Interestingly, they never even tried to get me back.

Frank