layout planning, how do you do it?

[wm3798]

Tom,
I just updated my "Thinking Ahead" thread with a scaled plan.  I spent about a half hour following the WM right of way from Deal to Pinkerton to verify a few things... Scratched out the plan accordingly.

Lee

[randgust]

On the current layout, I knew I wanted to model specific scenes off of the ATSF Albuquerque Third District.  The old layout was basically a track plan that had some prototype buildings stuck on it.  I wanted the new one to have recognizeable views.

This was the old days, so I started with USGS maps and pored over them

Flagstaff had a nice assortment of industries, and curves off either end of the town.

All kinds of "S" curves were present along the line from Chalendar to Riordan, I had one calendar view I really liked, that became my "S" curve with the Peaks on the background.

Winslow has a peculiar bump-around on the yard - a big curve around the former roundhouse.  That came in handy.  Also a highway overpass to exit scenes.  I had to reverse and flop a lot to fit, but it did.

Nelson Tunnel, the only true mainline tunnel on the ATSF, was added as the visible end.

I really wanted to fit in Canyon Diablo, but no go.  If I ever expand the layout to a bigger room, the plan is ready to go.

But what I picked pretty well stuffed an 8' x 5'6" plan.   But yeah, I follow USGS maps for everything.

[SAH]

So I'm working on building 2 6-8' modules about 16-20" wide attached at a right angle^*.  I want to model Los Angeles Junction's operations^** along the LA river.  I'm using Google Earth and Microsoft's Bird's Eye view to see where their tracks and what industries they serve.  But, how do you take this "real life" stuff and transpose it to two shelfs?  It may sound like a funny question, but I find it difficult to take this first step.  Any ideas?


*Similar to Lance Mindheim's Miami layout.
**in ho scale, because of the available CF7s and palm trees.

So far all have offered good ways to approach it.  And all boil down to: Find prototype - Copy prototype.  The prototype is much better at creating plausible scenes and realistic operations than anything I've ever dreamed up.   

12 to 16 linear feet, in HO.  Not all that much real estate, which you'll discover when you start laying things out.  Can't help but feel you'll wind up with a large photo module when you're done.  But then, if it gets you into the train RUNNING arena, it will be worth it.   ;D

Why not N?  Given your skill level I have to believe you could build a CF7.

Steve

[tom mann]

Thanks guys.  I have the March '96 issue, but the layout is too big and complex for what I want.  Oh, and surprisingly, that is the only source of information I have on the LAJ.  There are only a few photos online.

I think SAH is right:  given my space restrictions, I may end up with a large photo module (which is ok, photo modules are cool).

[ednadolski]

Yeah, that's the boat that I'm in.  Check Google for an area that looks "modelable", and then cross reference that with any kits that would make building the area easier...and then repeat.

Don't forget to ask the LDSIG folks for a "friendly critique" of your trackplan

you're right -- sometimes it's just best to build promptly, rather than spin too many iterations in the design cycle and never get anything done.  It all depends upon what you want to achieve.

[Ian MacMillan]

I use Google Earth a lot, and actual track maps. Then find track arrangements that I like and I cut them up and put them all together to get the best feel. I then use the FastTracks templates or a CAD program to see what I can actually fit into the space.

I then buy the snap track and flex to do a live run to make sure it works the way I want it, and then start handlaying.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

That birds eye view is a real kick in the teeth. It shows you how BIG things really are, and that gets you in trouble while trying to scale things.

Personally, I've never been able to selectively compress things well.

Here's something I wrote but never posted: http://conrail1285.com/news.asp?storyid=47

[amato1969]

Right on, Ed.  A small yard, for example, is what, like maybe a mile long?  That's about 33 feet in N.

[wm3798]

I think it's easy to get wrapped around the axle with prototype dimensions.  In reality, the model railroader needs a yard that accommodates the needs of the layout, not the prototype.  If your train length is limited by your passing sidings to a representative 20 cars, then you don't need a yard designed for trains of 100 cars.
If you have a fleet of 20 locomotives, you don't need a terminal that can handle 60.
If you have room for 6 industries that can only take two cars at a time, then you don't need to be able to switch 50...  etc. etc. etc.

Model railroads are representational only insofar as they are presentational.  It all goes back to the idea of building a theater set.  As long as the operator and/or visitor sees what appears to be a functional railroad, then for all intents and purposes, it is!

For the rest of the layout, my goal is to create vignettes that show the railroad at work, with enough connective tissue to bring them all together into a coherent design.  While it may appear desirable to model a particular segment inch for inch, the practical reality is that (with rare exception) you can't.  It can also be argued that you shouldn't.

The objective of a good layout design should be to attract and hold the operator's interest.  This objective is going to be met in different ways by different modelers, but it is almost always going to involve a fair amount of compression.  The trick is to arrive at a ratio that satisfies your need to recognize the prototypical scene, functions the way you want it to, and yet still fit within the physical constraints of your train room.  It is a game of balance and compromise.

Lee

[Iain]

I have seen something that is VERY rare:  a to scale model of an entire railroad.  Several years ago the Beaufort Historical Society commisioned a model of the Beaufort and Morehead.  Every last inch of track was modeled, no selective compression.  It stayed in a rented building for a couple of years.  It was never really operated because the only good running locomotive available was the LL SW1200, and one locomotive for everything really ended up having some troubles.

My problem is that once I transfer to NC State I won't have room for a full blown layout.  My solution:  build a couple of NTrack modules, include buildings for the layout I want after college.  I also have a little loop so I can do roundy-round every once in a while.

Meanwhile I research, I design.  I hope that someone makes an N ten-wheeler.

I just got maps the other day that show the track in New Bern, NC as it appeared in the forties.  Nice and complicated, you could get a pretty good switching layout out of it.  A port, three railroads, and trollies all together in a relatively small town.  You don't have to worry about short trains because a twenty car train was prototypical.

[sirenwerks]

...then cross reference that with any kits that would make building the area easier...

Tom, from what I've seen of photos of LA-area industries (mostly warehouses) they're primarily stucco (or spray-on cement) or block. These shouldn't be too hard to knock off and offer a lot of opportunity for low relief structures. Of course, no one manufacturers a prototypical cinder block sheet in N (details, details...)... I do like the idea of modeling the LA river, with all that concrete and the RR and street bridges. Maybe Craig @ BLMA has some photos to help since he's in that area? I vaguely remember his site having some, though it seems to be down at the moment so I can't check.

[sirenwerks]

Tom, one more thing... you've seen this site, right? - http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/1916/index.html

[sirenwerks]

...and have you looked into this resource... http://www.westcoastrailforums.com/view_forum.php?id=107

[Mark5]

I have seen something that is VERY rare:  a to scale model of an entire railroad.  Several years ago the Beaufort Historical Society commisioned a model of the Beaufort and Morehead.  Every last inch of track was modeled, no selective compression.  It stayed in a rented building for a couple of years.  It was never really operated because the only good running locomotive available was the LL SW1200, and one locomotive for everything really ended up having some troubles.

Heh, even in N scale the main line would be 104.6 feet!

The proto is 3.17 miles right?

[Iain]

I have seen something that is VERY rare:  a to scale model of an entire railroad.  Several years ago the Beaufort Historical Society commisioned a model of the Beaufort and Morehead.  Every last inch of track was modeled, no selective compression.  It stayed in a rented building for a couple of years.  It was never really operated because the only good running locomotive available was the LL SW1200, and one locomotive for everything really ended up having some troubles.

Heh, even in N scale the main line would be 104.6 feet!

The proto is 3.17 miles right?

Yes.  I'm probably one of the few people that have walked the entire length of their modeled road, and one of the even fewer to have done it in both directions in a single afternoon.  I've also ridden about a third of it in the cabs of two locomotives; a SW1200 and FM H10-44.