Dilemma ?

[carlso]

Need some assistance, please. Every thing I mention is N scale.

I have a couple of KATO F units that have TCS KOD8A decoders in them, they were installed some time (?) ago and have worked great.

I am using JMRI Decoder Pro and wanted to check the decoder brand on the 'new' window. All it comes back with is every Digitrax decoder made. This has happened to other KOD8A units as well.

The Decoder Pro version is 5.8, the current version and it reads all my other brands of decoders properly. I even discarded and re loaded the 5.8 version, and nothing changed. It will identify all my other brands such as ESU, Zimo, Digitrax. I think I remember seeing a remark about no producer specified on the cv8 ?

Any thoughts ? ?  Thanks in advance and be well.

[peteski]

How about going back to bare basics?  Using your DCC command station directly (no JMRI), on its programming track read CV8 from those decoders. What is the value returned?

Digitrax would be 129, and TCS 153.

I also checked NMRA decoder specifications (s-9.2.2_decoder_cvs_2012.07.pdf), and both CV7 and CV8 are mandatory CVs which require valid info to be stored in them.  If TCS does not have those values, then it is non-compliant (or defective).

[carlso]

 Thanks Pete,

I had not thought about "going back". I shall try that.

Thanks,
carl

[carlso]

Pete,

Thanks for you help sir ! I read the cv 7 & 8 and they indicated it is a Digitrax version 051. I took the decoder off of loco and found "163KO" printed on it and found it is a discontinued 163KOA. I bought this from another person and he had  the TCS manual wit it. I had my head up "you know where" and feel extremely stupid.
Have a great weekend.

[peteski]

Glad to have helped Carl!
Nothing to feel stupid about.  The information you had caused confusion, and often having someone else look at the "big picture" can be helpful.  I'm a troubleshooter at work, so that probably gives me an advantage (although I sometimes get steered in the wrong direction).

[carlso]

You have helped me many times on the forum as well as the ESU IO group.

Muchas gracias, mi amigo !

[John]

Peter is a model railroading treasure ..

[peteski]

Well, since I'm a Bot, I do as well as my programming is. With the recent more advanced AI software upgrade, I should be able to resolve even more complex problems. 

But serious, thanks guys.  I really enjoy solving electronic and mechanical puzzles (for myself or for others). But I have no interest whatsoever in railroad switching puzzles. Instead give me a locomotive I can take apart, and I'm a happy camper!

[John]

Well, since I'm a Bot, I do as well as my programming is. With the recent more advanced AI software upgrade, I should be able to resolve even more complex problems. 

But serious, thanks guys.  I really enjoy solving electronic and mechanical puzzles (for myself or for others). But I have no interest whatsoever in railroad switching puzzles. Instead give me a locomotive I can take apart, and I'm a happy camper!

You will never be a bot .. but just for fun, I input the original post into ChatGPT - (I have a paid account with extra features for professional purposes)

Here is the response ..

It sounds like JMRI Decoder Pro is having trouble properly identifying the TCS KOD8A decoders. Here are a few things you could try:

    Check CV8: The CV8 value should return the manufacturer ID for TCS (Train Control Systems). TCS decoders usually have a value of 153. If CV8 is returning something different, or "no manufacturer specified," the decoder might not be recognized properly.

    Manually Select the Decoder: Since the automatic identification isn’t working, you can manually select the KOD8A decoder in Decoder Pro. Go to the "Roster Entry" for that locomotive and choose the correct decoder from the list. Sometimes JMRI struggles with automatic identification but will work fine if you set it manually.

    Firmware/Decoder Pro Compatibility: While you’re using the latest version (5., sometimes specific decoders require newer or different versions of libraries within JMRI. Make sure you have the latest decoder definition files for TCS installed, which could be missing or outdated in your setup.

    Reset the Decoder: As a last resort, you could try resetting the decoder by setting CV8 to 8, which will reset it to factory defaults. Then try reading it again in Decoder Pro.

Hopefully, one of these steps helps resolve the issue. Let me know how it goes!


You will notice the AI didn't give the proper answer that Peteski did  .. check the manufacturer setting, or just take the shell off

I went back an told the AI to consider the manufacturer CV and also take the shell off .. here is the final response

It sounds like JMRI Decoder Pro is having trouble properly identifying the TCS KOD8A decoders. Here are a few things you could try:

    Check CV8 (Manufacturer Identifier): CV8 should return the manufacturer ID for TCS (Train Control Systems). For TCS decoders, the value should be 153. If it’s returning something different or "no manufacturer specified," this might explain why Decoder Pro is not recognizing it properly.

    Manually Select the Decoder: Since the automatic identification isn’t working, try manually selecting the KOD8A decoder in Decoder Pro. Go to the "Roster Entry" for that locomotive and choose the correct decoder from the list. Manual selection often bypasses issues with automatic detection.

    Visual Inspection of the Decoder: If you're unsure, a quick visual inspection of the decoder can confirm whether it's a KOD8A. Look for any model numbers or brand markings on the decoder itself to verify it’s the correct type.

    Firmware/Decoder Pro Compatibility: Ensure you have the latest decoder definition files for TCS installed. Even though you’re using the current version (5., sometimes libraries need to be updated separately to support specific decoders.

    Reset the Decoder: As a last resort, you could try resetting the decoder by setting CV8 to 8, which will restore factory settings. After the reset, try reading it again in Decoder Pro to see if the issue resolves.

By checking both the CV values and performing a visual inspection, you can confirm if it’s a recognition issue or something more with the decoder itself. Hopefully, one of these steps helps![/]

[peteski]

I love it John!  Thanks for the chuckle. 
Human brain brain still has some tricks up its sleeve that (at least maybe for few more years) AI will likely not match.  I guess my decades of troubleshooting as a job taught me to trust but verify. If something makes no logical  sense, find another way to verify things. Instead of using complex JMRI software, eliminate the complexity and break it down to basics.

[John]

I agree Pete - but it will catch up at some point .. Glad you got a chuckle

The exercise was an interesting experiment for me - the tech isn't quite up to being intuitive yet. You really have to craft your questions for it to answer very specifically, and adjust as the responses come back.

In defense of JMRI, it does eliminate the need (depending on the system) to do a lot of "button pushing" on a command station or throttle to read the CVs and makes programming so much easier .. JMRI detected the manufacturer ID accurately.  It's a tool - but just like a VOM, Oscope, cable tester, etc it only provides information.

That said, it did give a good start to troubleshooting the problem ..

[peteski]

I have nothing against JMRI or DecoderPro - it is a wonderful tool to make decoder programming much easier and more intuitive, plus keep a backup of all your locomotive's decoder settings.

However, when using Decoder Pro things just don't seem to make sense I like to eliminate it from the equation, and revert to directly reading individual CVs "manually" through the command station itself.