Broadway Limited T1 Paragon 4 Keep Alive Disabled

[gkoproske]

I have my Broadway Limited open on JMRI on my programming track.  I noticed on the Settings tab clear to the right that "Keep Alive=Disabled".  What?  To me, that's the whole selling point of having Paragon 4.  On Tony's Train Exchange they have a bullet point that says it is Disabled for compatibility with DecoderPro.  Well, all I can think of is the voltage that is on the programming track, especially with my PTB100.  It makes a bit of sense about the voltage.  So is there a BLI mechanism that senses the programming track and Disables the Keep Alive?  And what about when you put it back on the main line?  You can never test the specific CV if this happens.  Why did they specifically mention DecoderPro and not just say programming track? 

[Sokramiketes]

Step 1: Remove Paragon electronics.

Many a soul has become weary trying to do things with Paragon when the real secret to life is buying Stealth models and installing real electronics as needed. 

[peteski]

In my experience, there is a lot of inaccurate information about DCC.  Even the definition of what is considered a keep-alive circuit is not  clear.  Is 200µF a keep-keep alive?  How about 500µf, or 1000µF?  Or 5,000µF?  10,000, 200,000µF

I also don't buy that Paragon4 has on-board keep alive much larger than Paragon3?  Examining N scale Paragon3 and 4, Paragon4 does not have significantly greater number of MLCCs (Multi-Layer Ceramic Capacitors) than Paragon3.  Why MLCCs?  because those are wired in the place where a keep-alive would be connected.  These however don't add up to more than few hundred µF (on both Paragon 3 and 4).

In my experience (and also anecdotal evidence gathered on Internet), BLIs decoders in general are difficult to program on programming track. This also depends on the brand of DCC system used.

So to me this while hoopla that N scale Paragon 4 has much better "keep-alive" is  just bunch of you-know-what. At least as far as the on-decoder hardware goes.  Maybe BLI has changed the  decoder's internal programming (firmware) to be more resilient and not reboot so easily?  I really don't know for sure.

As for the voltage, the voltage used on the programming track should be 12-14V, which is similar to what is used on main line.  It also somewhat depends on the brand of DCC system.

I'm so happy that BLI finally saw the light (and probably bowed to the pressure from the modeling community) and decided to start selling their (pretty darn good models) without their decoders (stealth).

My question is: is the keep-alive and the enable-disable feature mentioned anywhere in the BLI's Paragon4 manuals?

EDIT:  Looks like I found it.

http://www.broadway-limited2.com/support/techSteam(0.04).pdf

CV221
Unique Control One
Bit 5: 0=keep alive active; 1=keep alive off (HO Only)

So it appears that H0 models with Paragon4 have additional keep-alive circuit built-in.  If yours is an N scale  model (which I assume since you posted this in the N/Z section) this thing doesn't even apply to your model.

[gkoproske]

Thank you for your prompt and thoughtful reply.

[Sokramiketes]

The gods spited me after commenting here.  A BLI Paragon 3 F unit arrived in the workshop with a request to install a keep alive.

I'm once again at that precipice of trying to work with Paragon electronics again, or just putting in an ESU decoder and documented keep alive. 

[peteski]

The gods spited me after commenting here.  A BLI Paragon 3 F unit arrived in the workshop with a request to install a keep alive.

I'm once again at that precipice of trying to work with Paragon electronics again, or just putting in an ESU decoder and documented keep alive.

LOL, I think you know that  the correct answer is in Step 1 of reply #2 in this thread (assuming that the owner of the models is willing to dish out the extra cash). 

[Sokramiketes]

LOL, I think you know that  the correct answer is in Step 1 of reply #2 in this thread (assuming that the owner of the models is willing to dish out the extra cash). 

The only right answer.  Did you ever document the keep alive pads on an ESU 5 series nano/micro wired decorder?  Or just the big boards?

[peteski]

The LokSound5 nanos don't have any solder pads on the decoder itself, but the adapter board with E24 connector and wires has solder pads/wires for U+ (blue) and GND. That is where you would hook the keep-alive.  If you will use the 3-lead ESU Power Pack, there are also logic level pads there for the control wire. I don't remember which - I have look it up, but I think it is AUX3 is one of them.