Atlas Motor replacement?

[TinyTurner]

I am looking for Atlas slow/scale speed motors to use in Lifelike SW1200's.
I have noticed it mentioned that Atlas motors are copies of Kato motors, so maybe they would do...
I might swap out the motors on older 'fast' locos too.
Poking about on the Atlas site does not seem too show much.
Perhaps someone knows the part numbers?
Where might a good online source of Atlas spares parts be found, only direct from Atlas?

[dandopinski]

In my experience the Kato motors are much faster than the Atlas, at least when using DCC. They dont consist well together with DCC

[CR4100]

The original motor in the SW chassis has a long shaft that holds a small flywheel and the worms at both ends. The Atlas motor has much shorter shafts which only have to hold the flywheels.

I'm curious what your expectations are doing a motor swap. The Life Like/Walthers SW's run at reasonable speeds without modifications. (I have eight of them.) You may want to try a coreless motor with long shafts but that requires new motor mounts and probably and adaptor to get the worms to fit.

[peteski]

Yes, the trucks in that Life-Like loco have an extra gear reduction built in. None of the other similar trucks have that feature.

[Bill H]

I can confirm that an Atlas slow speed motor will fit a LL SW9-1200. I did that conversion back in 2006 and it was posted in detail up on Tony's. Here is a link to that story.
https://tonystrains.com/news/new-conversion-of-n-gauge-life-like-sw9-1200-december-5-2006/

Attached is a side shot. I don't remember which specific Atlas slow speed I used, but clearly it will fit the frame.

Kind regards,
Bill

[TinyTurner]

Yes, that's the article I saw, pleasantly surprised it had been covered before.  Looking for the best possible performance and a reliable source of spares.
This is part of my learning curve of how to improve running, DCC install and losing the fear of breaking things, plus Lifelike turn up quite often at good value used prices. 
I sent a message to Atlas to find out where they are hiding all there motors, I don't see them.
Incidentally, I manged to find a pile of Lifelike SW1200 spares on that love/hate auction site that was to good to miss. 4x trucks, a shell in primer, 4x running boards, 2x chassis frames, slightly damaged motor mount and an instruction sheet!

I may have to gather samples of all the motors I can find to see what fits best, that also ties in with decoder research about how different motors respond to different decoders.

Of particular interest is fitting brass angle section pickups to replace the easily mangled spring contacts, I may also try that on other LifeLike's.     

[peteski]

Looking for the best possible performance and a reliable source of spares.

Unfortunately that is a pipe dream.  Even Kato, Atlas, or Bachmann which we consider as "reliable"parts sources, don't stock all parts all the time.
I mentioned those 3 because they have permanent online stores devoted to stocked spare parts.  Most other manufacturers do not. If you want a spare part you have to contact them hoping they will sell you some.

You have to remember that spare parts is a tiny part of the model manufacturer's business (if they even decide to offer them for sale). There are relatively few modeler who are willing or able to repair their models, and even fewer craftsman who actually use the parts for scratch- or kit-bashing,

[Bill H]

Tiny;
Please be aware that my post concerns an installation I did in 2006, almost two decades ago, with what is now considered an ancient, oversized decoder.  I only posted this in answer to your question does an Atlas slow speed fit, and it does. Note also the use of KATO brass worms. The biggest non DCC issue using the stock motor or the Atlas motor is the vertical alignment between the worm gear and the top gear of the trucks, and those are impacted by how far you shim the motor up and down, and the springiness and angularity of the contact strips.

Here is a thread by Jim Starbuck using a different motor and installing sound - and this is almost two decades newer. He did a great job with this install, but it is not for everyone's' skill set.
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=45574.0

Kind regards,
Bill

[mmagliaro]

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=35052.60
Lengthy detailed thread full of debate and math on the Kato vs the Atlas Scale Speed motor.  But if you jump
to page 5 of that thread, I posted explanation along with tables and some pictures for you to look at 
Yes, the Atlas scale speed motor is a better motor than the stock Kato (or I presume the higher-speed Atlas)
motor.   Not just because it runs slower, but because it produces more torque in the speed range from start up to about
50 mph (at least in a Kato E8) than the Kato motor, allowing it to maintain steady speed under load and up hills.

As for sources... initially I was loathe to mention this, because I don't like suspicious sources of products cutting the throats of legitimate manufacturers.  But since you are finding the availability of motors from Atlas lacking, I'll remind folks that from time to time, there have been batches of gray-plastic-nosed motors that look exactly like Atlas scale speed motors dumped on eBay or AliExpress.  I have bought some batches of these (as have others on this forum).  By and large, they work perfectly, but expect that out of a batch of 10, you might have 2-3 klunkers.   And since they are typically sold for only $2 or so, it's no big deal to buy 10 and toss some out.  The trick is finding the ones that are "scale speed".  I had good luck just guessing by the gray plastic brush holder section (as opposed to black).

[Sumner]

I got two Scale Speed that were listed for VO-1000's a year or two ago from...

( That Train Place on eBay )

I don't see them on there now but might be worth contacting them for availability if you don't have luck elsewhere.  Mine don't look quite like what Bill posted but they are the gray and look like VO-1000's I seen in the part from other places.  I haven't used them yet so can't say for sure they are the slow ones but were listed as such.  I've gotten another pair of atlas motors from there also.

Sumner

[TinyTurner]

I don't think I have actually seen a low speed motor.
The response from atlas is a basically a negative.
There is indeed a plethora of motors on Aliexpress.   
Is there a picture perhaps of the type of motor I am looking for?

I think its an open can type with twin flywheels.  Most of my net searches produce images of giant industrial motors.

Tramfabriek also has a good selection of motors that appear to have many applications for re-powering, one of which looks alot like the Bachmann S4 motor. 
https://www.tramfabriek.nl/motors.html

I am realising that its going to take some effort to pull this off.  That's ok, slowly turning into a 1:160 rebuilder      

[peteski]

You don't have any Atlas locos produced in the last 20 years (or longer)?  How about Kato locos?  The motor you are seeking is an open frame 5-pole skew wound armature permanent magnet DC motor. Atlas one looks almost identical to Kato's except the plastic end that holds the brushes is molded out of gray plastic.  When looking for motors make sure to find ones rated for 12V.

Here is an example of a low-priced motor from eBay that looks just like Atlas slow-speed motors.



The Tramfabriek motors are coreless  motors, superior to  the motors with iron-core armatures (like Atlas or Kato).
Some more recent models from Kato, Arnold, and Bachmann (and probably some others) have switched to using coreless motors.

This is what an inexpensive coreless motor looks like inside. This is a motor from Arnold SW1. Bachmann uses similar motors.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

If I remember correctly, those eBay motors were indeed ones used by Atlas, but were not authorized to be produced. I bought a a dozen or so when they were available. Most worked well but there were a few rejects.

The LL motor is actually closer to an Atlas low speed motor than a Kato or first gen Atlas. This and the double gear reduction are why LL models had such a good speed range. If you are using DCC, keep the current motor. Replace the plastic worms with brass parts from Kato. Kick start settings are best way to manage slow speed with DCC.