Author Topic: The Making of Sweet Toot  (Read 1813 times)

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bbunge

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The Making of Sweet Toot
« on: July 07, 2023, 03:22:00 PM »
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In 2019 Domino Sugar donated a 1950 built Plymouth 25 ton critter to the B&O Museum in Baltimore.  The critter had been working at the Baltimore Domino plant since 1992.  In 2016, it had been rebuilt, repainted and the subject of a naming contest that garnered several thousands of entries, with Sweet Toot being the winner.



Last December, while setting up the Bantrak N-trak layout in the North Car Shop at the museum, my son noticed the locomotive.  He tends to like very large and very small things.  Inspired by Randgust’s construction of a 25 ton GE critter, we set out to see if we could build Sweet Toot.



Like Randy, we started off with Damin Keenan’s Shapeways 25 ton GE shell.  We also followed Randy’s lead in using a Tsugawa Yokou Chassis.  I decided to use the stock motor as a starter.  Since the goal is to run this on FreemoN, where switch frogs are powered and the short wheel base is less of a problem, I figured it would be a good excuse to experiment with a Doehler & Haass PD10MU decoder from DM-Toys.  At 8.5x11.7x1.8mm, it looked like it would fit in the cab.  This decoder is described as having “Two small capacitors'' on the decoder for “driving without data loss.”  Would this decoder run the stock motor on the TU-7T chassis at slow speeds?  The stock chassis on DC tends to have two speeds.  Stopped and warp.  This decoder is also interesting since it is low cost.

http://www.randgust.com/Finished.htm
https://www.dm-toys.de/en/product-details/DH_PD10MU-3.html



The shell is a GE.  Sweet Toot is a Plymouth.  Modifications included;

- Removing the truck sides;
- Extending the hood front and making a new front radiator;
- Cutting out windows and filling a couple in to look more like the proto;
- Cutting off the rear coupler support and pushing it back to support a back deck;
- Build out the air tank for the back deck;
- Install Gold Metal stirrups;
- Install some handrails;
- Add the box on the front left hood;
- Exhaust stack, bell, orange safety lights, front and rear lights, and horn;



Whenever possible, I used lead or another metal to make the parts, including lead strips along the hood that make the yellow strip.  The front of the hood was cut off and extended to the square shape of a Plymouth with Styrene.  The radiator was made from lead sheet, scribed with an X-acto knife with vertical lines for the radiator.



The bell and horn were found in a parts bin and not exact to prototype.  Railings are Atlas railings off a junk box RS3 assembly.  I cast a pewter weight to fill the hood.  While the weight would help with pulling power (did we really expect to pull more than 1-2 cars?), it would also help with electrical contact.



In the end, it weighs in at 17.92 grams.  For comparison, weight by axle:

Sweet Toot: 8.96g
Bachmann F-7: 21.04g
Kato SD-80Mac: 22g
Kato ES4400: 19.2g
Bachmann 44 ton: 8.83g

The chassis has a vertical motor. I’ve had REALLY good results with the Toma Motor Works chassis for single truck trolleys, but Kenji’s chassis all have horizontal motors that did not fit in the shell of the critter. The decoder is alongside the motor inside the cab.  Lead was used to fill as much of the rest of the cab as possible.  I also used folded lead sheeting to fill the space between the ends of the chassis and the bumper ends of the shell. 



The air tank is brass tubing filled with pieces of lead and Tamya white putty to make the ends.  The tank straps and supports are lead.  The headlights are bits of styrene.  I have not tried to light the headlights.  The exhaust stack are bits of K&S brass tubing.  The windows are filled with painted styrene.  The couplers are MT 2004’s carefully painted like the prototype.

For the lettering, not having easy access to a decal machine, with a nice side photo of the locomotive, I clipped the artwork off the side of the cab and used GIMP to clean it up a bit, adjust color and size.  I then printed onto glossy photo paper. Next I used a razor to split the paper back off the plastic film, and sanded the back of the film to make it thinner and smoother.  This was then glued on to the body.



Out of the box performance with the D&H decoder was ok.  This was my first attempt at really digging into motor tuning parameters.  Unlike most decoders where a basic speed curve is defined by CV’s 2,5 and 6, D&H combines these into a single CV, CV48, which they call speed step.  It allows you to select from 8 predefined characteristics or curves.  At first, I thought this would be constraining, but it made the tuning process easier, since I first tested 7 (bad performance) to 0 and settled on using the 2nd CV-48=1) as providing the best performance. 

I also tuned the motor frequency, impulse width and shunting speed CV’s, partly based on tuning tips for coreless motors listed on a FAQ on the D&H website.  In the end performance is better, but not amazing.  It will creep at a slow speed, but not anything close to something like on track tie per minute.  It has a tendency to stall after stopping.  It has an outrageously high top speed. 

And what about those “Two small capacitors” that are supposed to provide some level of keep alive?  The wheelbase of the TU-7T is 9mm.  The plastic frog of a Peco switch is about 18mm.  At a scale speed of about 30mph, the locomotive will successfully pass over the frog the majority of the time.

The TU-7T has low profile wheels, so we look forward to running Sweet Toot on Freemo-N with juiced frogs. 




Cheers,

Bob


Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: The Making of Sweet Toot
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2023, 11:08:53 PM »
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Freaking incredible!

peteski

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Re: The Making of Sweet Toot
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2023, 11:46:44 PM »
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Very impressive, and cute at the same time.

Interesting about using D&H brand decoder.  Those are not very well known in USA.

Not sure if I understand the predefined  speed curves.  I usually use the 3-step speed curve to limit the top speed of the model (and for speed matching with other models which have different motors or mechanism).  I'm not sure how having just 8 choices would work for me.  I guess I should read up on the D&H way of doing things.

Also, in my experience speed curve is not what produces smooth running. Well, the minimum speed (CV2) is important part of slow speed adjustment, but it is the various BEMF settings, and PWM frequency that make all the difference for smooth running.

As for that elusive 1-tie/minute, to me  that is not very useful in real life applications (either model or even 1:1).  Why would anybody need such slow speed?
. . . 42 . . .

nkalanaga

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Re: The Making of Sweet Toot
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2023, 02:38:21 AM »
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Not useful for running, but if it will start and run at that speed, it should start and stop very smoothly under normal conditions.  No jackrabbit starts!
N Kalanaga
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Jim Starbuck

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Re: The Making of Sweet Toot
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2023, 06:43:16 AM »
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Great build Bob!
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bbunge

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Re: The Making of Sweet Toot
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2023, 04:19:56 PM »
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Very impressive, and cute at the same time.

Interesting about using D&H brand decoder.  Those are not very well known in USA.

Not sure if I understand the predefined  speed curves.  I usually use the 3-step speed curve to limit the top speed of the model (and for speed matching with other models which have different motors or mechanism).  I'm not sure how having just 8 choices would work for me.  I guess I should read up on the D&H way of doing things.

Also, in my experience speed curve is not what produces smooth running. Well, the minimum speed (CV2) is important part of slow speed adjustment, but it is the various BEMF settings, and PWM frequency that make all the difference for smooth running.

As for that elusive 1-tie/minute, to me  that is not very useful in real life applications (either model or even 1:1).  Why would anybody need such slow speed?

Peteski,

The DM-Toys link above as a link to the documentation for the decoder.  Also, D&H has information in their FAQ here:

https://doehler-haass.de/cms/pages/haeufige-fragen.php#a2f

My browser might be translating to English for me automatically.  Any ideas and insight you might have would be most welcome; this is the first time I've tried to tune a decoder as much as I have with this one. As nkalanaga mentioned, not that I want to run at such slow speeds, but more interested in getting rid of the times it doesn't start without a nudge. 

Bob



peteski

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Re: The Making of Sweet Toot
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2023, 12:09:50 PM »
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Peteski,

The DM-Toys link above as a link to the documentation for the decoder.  Also, D&H has information in their FAQ here:

https://doehler-haass.de/cms/pages/haeufige-fragen.php#a2f

My browser might be translating to English for me automatically.  Any ideas and insight you might have would be most welcome; this is the first time I've tried to tune a decoder as much as I have with this one. As nkalanaga mentioned, not that I want to run at such slow speeds, but more interested in getting rid of the times it doesn't start without a nudge. 

Bob

Thanks for the info.

As for the question, the only reason I can think of for for not starting after sittign stationary is because the decoder loses power (all 4 wheels of this relatively light model lose contact with the track).  If the loco had a working headlight, the loss of connectivity could be verified (the headlight would go out). The nudge reconnects at least one wheels to each track.  Capacitors will likely not help in that scenario, since the only provide power to the decoder for a fraction of a second, and if the loco is standing still with no contact with the track, the power is drained fast.   But even with a larger keep-alive unit installed (also impossible due to the model's small physical size), when the wheels are not connected to the track, the decoder does not receive the DCC packets telling it to start up.  While the loco is running, loss of just few packets when the wheels briefly lose contact with the track does not cause a problem, since the running loco will start receiving packets again fraction of a second later (inertia and the small capacitors, keep it running, and the wheels reconnect with the track).

Several years ago, when the early keep-alive circuits were getting popular, Lenz made decoder with keep-alive capability, which they touted could receive DCC packets, even with the wheels not in contact with the track.  They demonstrated that by placing some masking tape on the track, and they were able to control the locos speed and functions, even with the wheels disconnected from the track and loco running on the keep-alive-supplied power.  I suspect they used capacitive-coupling circuit to keep receiving the packets. But that decoder and keep-alive were rather bulky, so I never really got very interested in it.  I think it is a Lenz-Gold decoder.  But it is way too bulky for your flea-size model.

The only suggestion I can think of it to keep the wheel treads and track impeccably clean, and maybe permanently couple another car (with electric pickups) to the loco, to increase number of wheels in contact with the track.
. . . 42 . . .

Zack L-J

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Re: The Making of Sweet Toot
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2023, 04:52:46 PM »
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What a cutie!

Tjack757

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Re: The Making of Sweet Toot
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2023, 07:10:32 PM »
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When I see awesome stuff like this, it gives me new insight, which is the reason I just became a member.
“Wonder is the seed of knowledge” – Sir Francis Bacon

John

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Re: The Making of Sweet Toot
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2023, 09:45:17 PM »
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 :D Sweet Toot causes cancer in Kali.  :D :D :D
Great work

mu26aeh

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Re: The Making of Sweet Toot
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2023, 09:49:39 PM »
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When I see awesome stuff like this, it gives me new insight, which is the reason I just became a member.

And stuff like this makes me think why I waste time, and should take up knitting or stamp collecting....

Awesome work !

nkalanaga

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Re: The Making of Sweet Toot
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2023, 12:32:32 AM »
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I've seen them on larger-scale models, but not in N scale:  sliding track contacts.

Take a piece of springy sheet metal, solder one end to the decoder input, and bend the other end to slide on the rail.  Make it narrow, put it between the wheels, and it wouldn't be obvious, especially painted black.  Much better contact that just the wheels, as long is it wasn't too stiff, and didn't lift the wheels enough to lose traction.
N Kalanaga
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bbunge

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Re: The Making of Sweet Toot
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2023, 09:19:46 PM »
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My son put this video of Sweet Toot together running on the FreemoN layout at N scale weekend at Altoona this summer.   This week we were able to compare it to the proto.









Here it is sitting on the walkway just above the push pole socket.

Bob

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Re: The Making of Sweet Toot
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2023, 09:34:10 AM »
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Great work, Bob.  I have a soft spot for little critters.
The only suggestion I have for 2.0 would be to use Z couplers.  Probably not bad if they are black or brown, but painting that boxing glove yellow really gives it too much punch...

Lee
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nkalanaga

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Re: The Making of Sweet Toot
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2023, 12:20:40 AM »
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Not to mention that the Z draft gear box is probably also smaller!
N Kalanaga
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