Tichy decal instructions

[nkalanaga]

A while back I asked if anyone made decals for 1920s-1970s UTLX tank cars with yellow lettering, and was directed to Tichy.  I've bought custom decals from Tichy, and these don't seem any different, so I won't comment on them.

But the instructions on the back of the envelope are odd, to say the least.  Here's a copy, and, like the original, it's all caps:

DECAL APPLICATION:  FOR LARGE AREAS & LOGOS WE NOW SUGGEST THE FOLLOWING.  FLOAT THE DECAL OFF THE BACKER AND BLOT DRY WITH A PAPER TOWEL.  USE A Q-TIP TO APPLY A THIN COAT OF ELMER'S CLEAR GLUE TO THE BACK.  POSITION THE DECAL WITH TWEEZERS AND PRESS IN PLACE WITH A PIECE OF STIFF FLEXIBLE FOAM (LIKE FROM A BRASS MODEL BOX).  LET DRY OVERNIGHT, THEN OVERSPRAY WITH CLEAR LACQUER.  FOR REGULAR LETTERING USE CONVENTIONAL DECAL METHODS,  SEE DECAL CATALOG FOR MORE INFO.

Has anyone ever tried to, or been advised to, glue their decals on?

[bbussey]

Just follow the standard MicroScale procedure and you’ll be fine. MicroSet will soften the film and MicroSol (or Solveset) will fuse it to the paint. The decal film is very fine but not delicate like aged MicroScale decal film. You’ll be pleased with the end result.

[thomasjmdavis]

For tank car lettering, you should be fine doing it like any other decal.  However, for large logos, they do have their own method.  Plus warnings about trying to get their decals on to ribbed cars, etc. And yep, they do recommend Elmers for larger decals.  We should remember though, that they make decals up to at least O scale- where a 'large' logo can be the size of a couple or three of our boxcars. Here is their pdf:

https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Portals/0/Instructions/DECAL%20APPLICATION.pdf?ver=HPvpAYTgPs4ABFsZXvQn0A%3d%3d

[JMaurer1]

I believe what the instructions say. I did a Cardox dry ice reefer the conventional way I have always done decals, and when I went to spray the top coat to seal the decals, the Cardox logo (right side of the door) had the edges peal up all the way around it almost as soon as the top coat hit it. I saw where the instructions said to use white glue (which also doesn't make much sense since white glue is water based) but I didn't because I've NEVER had a problem in the 100s of cars I've decaled...until then. One of these days, I might remove the offending decal and use glue to try again, but today isn't that day....tomorrow isn't looking like it either. Until that day arrives, it remains in the failed project box...

[peteski]

Tichy decals are printed using very thick and stiff ink. Nkalanga actually provided me a sample some years ago, and I could actually measure the ink thickens with standard digital caliper.  I think it was 0.002", which is magnitudes thicker than ink on any other decals.  Not talking about the thickens of the backing  paper but the ink itself!.  I was going to do some more experiments with the decal but I got sidetracked. Still have the decal sample.

All waterslide decals are printed on clear film over water-soluble (usually dextrose-based adhesive), but in actuality, very little of that adhesive remains under the decal film after application. Regular thin film decals have enough cling without the adhesive.  It seems that Tichy is working around that stiffness problem by adding the extra adhesive. I would not consider using those for my models (yes, I know that sometimes they are the only game in town, but I have an Alps priniter).  The white glue trick has long been been used by modelers (usually military modelers) as a fix for difficult to apply decals (impervious to decal setting solutions).

I believe Tichy uses an early version of direct-to-substrate ink-jet printer, utilizing thick UV cured inks.  Similar to what MTL uses to decorate their cars, but MTL has gone through multiple printer upgrades, so the resolution and ink consistency are much improved over Tichy.   

[nkalanaga]

Bryan and Tom:  That's what I did.  And what I plan to do in the future.  It's just that I've never seen a decal maker suggest gluing their decals on with Elmer's Glue! 

It's interesting that military modelers have been doing it, due to difficult decals.  Any idea what kind of decal film they use?  I know some truck modelers use vinyl lettering sheets, but they aren't "decals" as such, and aren't meant to be applied the same way.

Yes, the ink is as thick as on the custom decals I've used before.  I've never had the decal film curl around the edges, but no amount of setting solution will soften the ink.  On one car, as an experiment, I tried Testor's plastic cement!  It didn't affect the ink, even though it dissolved the paint along with the decal film.

For most of what I ordered from them, as custom decals, it didn't matter.  Most of my orders were full sheets of data, for reweighing cars, so just very small numbers, and they mainly go on flat surfaces.  I quit ordering from them when their printer started double-printing white decals.  For N scale 3-inch numbers, it's very obvious when the two layers are a couple pixels off, as "1"s in particular come out as "11".  My custom orders go to Highball now, which takes a little extra work, but the decals are clearer.

I wonder if Tichy's decals could be used to make custom rivet patterns, at least for N and smaller scales?  Anyone ever try it?

[peteski]

It's interesting that military modelers have been doing it, due to difficult decals.  Any idea what kind of decal film they use?  I know some truck modelers use vinyl lettering sheets, but they aren't "decals" as such, and aren't meant to be applied the same way.

I've been reading Finescale Modeler Magazine for over 30 years and in that time I have seen  PVA glue being used on decals numerous times. While I can't give any specifics, I seen it mention in new model kit reviews where the reviewer notes that the kits decals (for whatever reason) do not want to adhere, so he uses extra glue.  I have also seen it in build articles, again for when decals do not stick to the model.

I wonder if using PVA glue was suggested to Tichy by one of the customers who used it to get the Tichy decals to stick.

I quit ordering from them when their printer started double-printing white decals.  For N scale 3-inch numbers, it's very obvious when the two layers are a couple pixels off, as "1"s in particular come out as "11".
My custom orders go to Highball now, which takes a little extra work, but the decals are clearer.

And with use of setting solutions the decals conform nicely to any of the surface irregularities. 

Double printed!?  I would have asked Tichy to reprint those. That type of a misprint should be unacceptable.

I wonder if Tichy's decals could be used to make custom rivet patterns, at least for N and smaller scales?  Anyone ever try it?

I think that would be a perfect application for Tichy decals.  Even if single layer of ink was nto thick enough, they could probably print them multilayered (like white undercoat with colored ink on top).

[nkalanaga]

I did have them reprint my custom set.  The reprint looked the same.  The black copy (i ordered one of each) was fine, it's only the white version.  At the time they said that they would have to wait months for the technician to work on it, due to pandemic restrictions.  So I have been sending my orders to Highball instead.  I don't know if Tichy has it fixed, but two of the sets I just ordered have the double-printed white, while the other three white sets are fine.  I don't know when any of them were printed, so don't know how the printer is now.

I've never had trouble with Tichy's decals sticking, on smooth surfaces, and the film works fine over details.  I have had problems with sheets not having enough glue to hold the decal to the paper, so it separates while being cut.  That's annoying, but I can usually keep track of the decal itself, and with some water, they apply just fine.  Of course, part of the problem is that, as I said, my custom sets are mostly data, and two or three 3-inch N scale characters make a very small piece of decal film.  Not much paper under it!

Here's the actual last response I received from Tichy.  I haven't tried to contact them since.

"Alec Poteat <alec@tichytraingroup.com>
Mon 6/7/2021 5:39 PM
The company is short handed with techs, and around the end of the year when they are coming in to do a head replacement they will see if they can do anything to improve the print quality further for the much smaller print. Until then the printing quality is still the same.

Alec Poteat
Head of Graphic Design
TICHY TRAIN GROUP"