Why are decals lifting off after application?

[Bart1701]

I created and printed some custom decals and am having some issues with them.

I apply some MicroSol to the gloss finish on the model (it tends to just "bead up" rather than coat the area), apply the decal, and let it dry. After it has dried, I go to apply some MicroSet and the decals lift off the surface as I start to brush the solution on. Wondering what I might be doing wrong?

Some details:

- Decals were printed onto the decal paper using a laser printer
- The decal paper is either from MicroScale or Bare Metal Foil. I have sheets from both companies and can't tell which ones were used for these decals.
- I have applied two coats of the Liquid Decal Film to the decals before applying them to the model.

I do find that the decals are ready to slide off the paper after only a few seconds of being dipped into water. Wondering if I need to let them stay on the paper longer to get more adhesive on the decals before sliding them off?

Thanks,

Bart

[ns737]

do you have any solvaset?

[wvgca]

sounds like you don't have enough adhesive on the decal paper  ...matte fixative only goes on the printed side, not both , and it should take at least 10-15 seconds of immersion in lukewarm water to get the decal to slide off the backing paper ..

[DKS]

You don't want to leave the decal in water much longer than it takes to slide off--otherwise you'll start to dissolve the adhesive, and then the decals will almost assuredly lift off.

[arbomambo]

Also,
Microset is applied to the surface before application, and microsol is applied to the decal after it is in place; you have it backward.

[Bart1701]

Also,
Microset is applied to the surface before application, and microsol is applied to the decal after it is in place; you have it backward.

Oops - my post had them listed in the wrong order. I do use the MicroSet 1st and the the MicroSol after they have dried.

Thanks,
Bart

[Bart1701]

do you have any solvaset?

Yes, a very old bottle that still is about 1/2 full. I use it when the MicroSol doesn't seem to work as desired.

My issue with these decals is that they lift off as soon as I touch them with the brush that has MicroSol on it.

Thanks,
Bart

[Bart1701]

sounds like you don't have enough adhesive on the decal paper  ...matte fixative only goes on the printed side, not both , and it should take at least 10-15 seconds of immersion in lukewarm water to get the decal to slide off the backing paper ..

The Liquid Decal film is being applied only to the decal side. I am doing a second coat of film on the decal side.

The decals are ready to slide off the backing paper after 3-4 seconds in the water.

My water may have been a few degrees over lukewarm. I'll try water that is closer to lukewarm and see how it goes.

Thanks,
Bart

[wvgca]

if it makes any difference,  i usually let the fixative set / dry for at least eight hours, and i use testors decal paper

[Bart1701]

if it makes any difference,  i usually let the fixative set / dry for at least eight hours, and i use testors decal paper

I usually wait a couple of days after applying the Liquid Decal Film before applying the decals. May have to try the Testor's decal paper - have never used their paper.

Thanks,
Bart

[dem34]

Doubt it will be terribly applicable either, but I also "tack" the corners of decals with Micro sol/ Solvaset about a minute before I brush over. Its what I learned to do when I was having similar issues with some CMR decals.

[peteski]

I never had problems with BMF decal paper (and Alps printed decals).  I don't overcoat the decal before application since Alps wax ink is waterproof.  You should not need the overcoat either as laser printer toner is also waterproof.  Only decals printed with ink jet on ink jet paper have to be overcoated as ink jet inks are water soluble.  Also are you sure you are using laser compatible cecal paper (not ink jet compatible)?

[nickelplate759]

A few other thoughts. I've had this problem a couple of times, and it came down to user (me) error.

Most likely, you are soaking the decals too long, as others have suggested.  Soak them  (I use room-temperature distilled water) for 20-30 seconds or so, then remove them from the water and let them sit just long enough so that they slide on the backing.

I should note that soaking time varies a lot from one brand of decal paper to the next, so you may need to experiment.

Are the decals "blushing" (sort of white-ish) after they dry? If so, they didn't adhere well - not enough Micro-Sol or equivalent.

If it's not over-soaking, then what kind of are you applying them over? Is it a clean painted surface (preferred)?  If so, what kind of paint?  Not all decals adhere well to all surfaces.  For example, K4s Decals instructions state that they should not be applied to bare plastic as they likely won't stick.

[gbcaboose]

I've have a few experiences with the Microscale liquid decal film where the edges tend to curl up after being applied. I just dipped a Q-tip in some micro-set and rolled it over the decal to flatten it out, using enough pressure to hopefully get it to lie flat and adhere to the surface.

This might also work in your case to keep the decals from lifting up so easily.

I'm my case, this happens when I use the liquid decal film over an older brittle decal to keep it from cracking.  I've always figured that maybe the older original decal has a different 'shrinkage' rate than the new liquid decal film when snugging down to the surface. The new film extends out past the original an tends to want to curl up around the edges.

Mike