New wheelsets for Atlas 55-ton hopper?

[nkalanaga]

Bryan:  That's why I tried, and suggested it.  With almost no costs, you have little to lose.  Even if they don't sell well, they will eventually sell, and all you'll have "lost" is the cost of a print run.

Just out of curiosity, what will be involved in making the longer axles?  Reprogram the lathe to cut longer axles?  Build a new "jig" for the assembly machine?  Or are they assembled by hand? 

I've seen what goes into a new variation on parts at our filter factory.  Some are as simple as changing the date code engraving, some require rebuilding the entire assembly line to be able to make two different, but very similar, parts.

[bbussey]

Bryan:  That's why I tried, and suggested it.  With almost no costs, you have little to lose.  Even if they don't sell well, they will eventually sell, and all you'll have "lost" is the cost of a print run.

Just out of curiosity, what will be involved in making the longer axles?  Reprogram the lathe to cut longer axles?  Build a new "jig" for the assembly machine?  Or are they assembled by hand? 

I've seen what goes into a new variation on parts at our filter factory.  Some are as simple as changing the date code engraving, some require rebuilding the entire assembly line to be able to make two different, but very similar, parts.

It doesn’t take much regarding the axle length. Most of the startup cost is in the machining of a new wheel diameter, so I don’t anticipate a notable investment needed to introduce a new axle length for the existing wheels. Unlike the rolling stock or even the truck frames, the startup costs are much much less than the production costs.  And fortunately, we now have the logistics in place to replenish stock with just a three-month lead time that keeps the costs down and air-freights the wheels in. The process was put to the test this summer as the demand for the wheels exceeded what we had calculated for 2021. The goal is to always have stock of all the wheels, that’s one of the selling points to dealers. If the demand for the trucks increases, we will institute the same policy for them. As of now they will rerun when needed for rolling stock production, but we still have a healthy quantity of all three colors.

[thomasjmdavis]

The goal is to always have stock of all the wheels, that’s one of the selling points to dealers.

Amen.  If this works as well as one would predict, ESM will be the standard of the industry as soon as you get a few more axle lengths.  High quality product, available upon demand (or at worst, whatever the turnaround time is for the local hobby shop to get the shipment in).  Resolves the number 1 problem for many hobby shops- they can't afford to "pre-order" every product that someone MIGHT want someday in the future, but if they don't, it won't be available when the customer asks for it.

I hope that concept catches on other manufacturers in N scale.  We used to call it inventory, back in ancient times. 

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Yeah that was my big issue when starting to convert my wheels. At the time FVM wheels would sell out quickly so I was looking for alternative sources. Exactrail has really nice wheels and I bought tons of those, but they only do .540" and they were unavailable for years. Now they are back at a 50% markup.

So I'll be happy to find a few supplier as long as they can keep the damn things in stock.

You can't convert 1200 cars overnight. Especially when many will need me trucks, couplers and details in addition to wheels.

[nkalanaga]

Daniel:  "1200 cars"  That's me, although I don't have quite that many.  I expect to take at least a year, just based on what I can spend.

Bryan:  That's what I was hoping:  The real development costs are in the wheels, and the wheels are the same, regardless of the axle.  It's nice to have it confirmed.
(I'm the curious type, who likes to know why and how things are done the way they are, even if I have no need for the knowledge!  One never knows what might come in handy.   Working in bank data processing, I never saw an injection molding machine, but learned a lot about the process from model railroad magazines and forums.  Now I work at a factory with over a dozen of them.)

[bbussey]

I don't see the "inventory" concept per se ever returning, because the distributor network has changed radically over the past decade. It used to be that manufacturers made the product and distributors held the inventory, and then would sell to dealers over time. That's why they would get an additional 10% discount. But now they act as dealers and order to match their demand, meaning they don't stock inventory anymore. With that burden transferred back to the manufacturer, they can't afford to both carry inventory and introduce new product. Not enough funds to do both. So that translates into shorter runs that mostly sell out when released. It also has increased the desire for manufacturers to sell directly to dealers and not cede the extra 10% discount, which further has eroded the distributor network. That's basically the state of model railroading product distribution affairs in a nutshell.

We can afford to have the wheels "in stock" because (relative to motive power and rolling stock) they are less expensive to develop and produce, the lead time (for us) is three months, and the product moves very well. As long as we monitor the "months supply" measure, we are able to maintain stock. That said, new variations still must be added with planning because it still takes some capital to get them launched and for the orders to start coming in. We have been fortunate that most of the dealer orders are for sizable quantities, and that a handful of dealers place restock orders every four weeks or so. But the regular repeat orders were not until after their customer base demand increased. I'm sure the demand for the .553" axles is there. But it still would take a few months for the consumer base in general to realize that the new product is available.

Once the HO XIH is launched and revenue starts coming in, we will address expanding the wheel choices regarding variations and packaging.

[nkalanaga]

The biggest "problem" I see with the 0.553" axles is the pent-up demand.  Dealers probably have a lot of customers with standing orders for these, from Atlas or IMRC, who will be happy to buy yours.  But what will the long-term average sales be, after that initial surge?

And if the other freight car manufacturers start including metal wheels on their cars, how many people will want to spend extra to replace those?  From my tests, both Atlas and IMRC wheels roll just fine, so the only reason to change would be a slight improvement in the appearance of the wheel itself.  For me, it doesn't matter enough to change them, unlike going from plastic to metal.

I don't have any ideas on how to find out, which is why I'm not in marketing!

Now, if I could get good modern metal wheels for old Con-Cor trucks, I'd replace theirs.  In the 70s, they had the best wheels available, metal, small flanges, rolled smoothly.  But the new wheels seem to have better axle ends, judging by how well they roll in slight grades.  For now, I'm keeping the originals.

[Maletrain]

Are Atlas cars  now coming with metal wheels?  The ones I am buying are mostly off eBay, because Atlas is not making what I am looking for, now. And, those have plastic wheels that are not so free rolling as metal wheels or MTL plastic wheels in MTL trucks.

I know Atlas bought BLMA and has provided more of those wheels as separate parts, but aren't they still 0.540" axles?  Atlas would have to change their trucks to use 0.540" axles.  Did they? Will they?

Standardizing on a single axle length seems like a good idea for the hobby in general.  But, there are already a very large number of "legacy" lengths out there that I think most of us would rather be able to deal with by swapping wheels rather than buying new trucks (and still maybe needing to swap wheels).

[bbussey]

Atlas metal wheels with 553" axle — part numbers 22020 (33") and 22036 (36").  24-axle packs I think.

They also offer .540" axle, all 33" wheel — part numbers 9022134 (24 axles), 9022135 (48 axles) and 9022136 (100 axles).  This is a different design than the BLMA wheel.

[thomasjmdavis]

Atlas metal wheels with 553" axle — part numbers 22020 (33") and 22036 (36").  24-axle packs I think.

They also offer .540" axle, all 33" wheel — part numbers 9022134 (24 axles), 9022135 (48 axles) and 9022136 (100 axles).  This is a different design than the BLMA wheel.

The Atlas metal wheels are on "pre-order" for $14.95 but no indication of how many will be in the package (maybe in the pre-order announcement?).  Wheels appear to be plastic center with a metal rim, and are noted as "magnetic" if that is of concern. https://shop.atlasrr.com/p-1201-n-33-metal-wheels-blackened.aspx   

I don't mean to be argumentative, but given that the price for 24 Atlas all plastic wheels is $14.95, I am guessing that the metal wheels at the same price have fewer than 24, more likely 12?

Just to be clear, the .540 axle listed there are plastic wheels- at least the pack of 9022135 in my parts drawer is plastic.  I have used them with some success to replace old pizza cutters.
https://shop.atlasrr.com/p-2828-n-scale-48-pc-lp-lc-33-wheels-for-mt.aspx

[bbussey]

My mistake on the .540" wheels.  I don't know the pack quantities on the .533" wheels.

[Maletrain]

I did get a package of the Atlas 33" 0.540" axle plastic wheels in brown to try them.  I was surprised to find that they roll substantially less freely than MTL plastic wheels in MTL trucks. 

The "metal" wheels pictured here https://shop.atlasrr.com/p-1201-n-33-metal-wheels-blackened.aspx look extremely "old school" and nothing like the wheels I am seeing on their new offerings, or even their not-so-new offerings like their 55-ton hoppers.

So, for me, those are no competition to any future ESM wheels of any axle length. 

In the  department, I just pulled a couple of wheel sets off an Atlas 55-ton hopper I just purchased on eBay, and measured the axles.  They were 0.560" and 0.5595" not 0.053" - what the heck? 

So, I gave them a quicky roll test, compared to an MTL box car sitting nearby, and the Atlas car rolled almost as well with those longer plastic axles. 

When I really should not be doing something else, I will try some Fox Valley wheels with 0.553" axles and report.  I don't think I have any FVM wheels that are 0.563" axles, because those that I bought some time ago were actually more like 0.572" and mismarked.  If somebody else has axles that are actually 0.563" maybe they could do that test.  But, check the axles first, to make sure they aren't really from that batch that was mismarked.

[bbussey]

I've swapped in FVM .553" wheels into various Atlas trucks on various equipment including the 55-ton hoppers and they work fine.  Those soft plastic wheels and axles apparently don't have the same tolerance as metal axles.

[nscalbitz]

It hasn't been mentioned, since you guys like to spend or make money (no offence intended); so I'll be the boogie-man and say categorically that [as a sometime old-hack refurbisher of several hundred '70-80s boxcars] some simple 'cleaning' of the trucks can be useful.
Steps-
1- Make sure the sides are straight first. A light touch with long nose pliers to even out variation. Dip in hot water for a few seconds also works.
2- Add some heavy pencil 'graphite' [pencils- remember those?] to the axle bearing surfaces. Reassemble, test rolling. if fails:
3- Check the bearing surfaces for inequalities (quite a few have a 'shear' surface visible); use a fine drill bit (I dunno 3/64ths?) to remove one turn of plastic.
4- Reassemble, test rolling. if fails: Do again. if fails- reject as lost cause.

This method has resurrected a large percentage of A1G era models.
Second stage 'refurbishment' is to apply new sets of original Atlas and others wheelsets.

I also found that those 'spared' from rubbishing metal wheel sets of old RR?/ CC vintage actually worked qite well on the basic A1G era cars too! So I spent time, rather than money on sourcing a solution because that's the way economy worked for me.

Oh yeah, I made a special mark on all the trucks that had been refurbed- I added a little silver ink to the springs on the trucks- barely noticeable but easily spotted when you know what to look for.
Thanks for reading,
d