How to Speed Match LokSound 5.0?

[davefoxx]

What is the trick to speed match Loksound 5 (this decoder is version 5.3.115) with Loksound 4 decoders?  Apparently, there’s no CV6, so I can’t do a three-step speed matching.  I have a LokProgrammer and an Accutrack II Speedometer, but I can’t see a way to do it as easily as it is on the Loksound 4.  The linear, exponential, and logarithmic preset speed tables are worthless to me.  I’m just trying to get a linear table with Speed Step 1 at 1.0 smph, Speed Step 14 at 35 smph, and Speed Step 28 at 70 smph.

DFF

[Steveruger45]

@davefoxx . Dave there is a roughly 3.58:1 ratio to bear in mind.  On the momentum settings.
So whatever you are setting your v4 momentum to, divide that Number by 3.58 and that should be pretty darn close the number you need to set the v5 momentum to.
The v5 doesnt have the three cv sets for speed setting, you have to use the speed curve values.
If you are trying to match a three step set up in the v4 you can simulate that in the speed curve with the 1st step the middle step and the last (high end) step and then set the others between those three points to follow straight lines.

The v5dcc does have the three cvs like the v4

[davefoxx]

@davefoxx . Dave there is a roughly 3.58:1 ratio to bear in mind.  On the momentum settings.
So whatever you are setting your v4 momentum to, divide that Number by 3.58 and that should be pretty darn close the number you need to set the v5 momentum to.
The v5 doesnt have the three cv sets for speed setting, you have to use the speed curve values.
If you are trying to match a three step set up in the v4 you can simulate that in the speed curve with the 1st step the middle step and the last (high end) step and then set the others between those three points to follow straight lines.

The v5dcc does have the three cvs like the v4

@Steveruger45,

Aha!  Last night, this did not make sense to me, but, today, this is suddenly clear what you're saying regarding the momentum setting.  I'll have to look to see what the momentum in my V4.0 decoders is.  Someone on Facebook also responded to my question posed there:

LokSound 5 DCC decoders use the NMRA standard multipliers for values you enter in the speed table. Earlier Loks (and regular V5s) used the European mfx standard. You'll need wildly different values to get the same effect.
The LokSound V4, LokPilot Standard and LokSound 5 all use a momentum multipler of 0.25
The LokSound 5 DCC uses the NMRA Standard momentum multipler of 0.896.

And there's the 3:584:1 ratio (0.896 divided by 0.25) that you mentioned, Steve.  I think I have a regular LokSound V5.0 (not LokSound 5 DCC), though.  I'll look tonight to see if I can find this in the LokProgrammer.  I guess I still have to manually put in the speed table.    Why in the world did they remove CV6?

DFF

[Steveruger45]

Hi Dave, yes the other reply you got is correct and basically says (better) what I was trying to say which was coming off the top of my head at that time.
I use V4 selct micros and V5dcc micros and indeed their momentum settings are different by that ratio.  The V5 micro dcc version also still has the 3 CVs so you dont need to use the speed curve on either type.
If you have a speedometer I think I would first try to get the speed matched with zero momentum in the equation first and only after that plug-in the momentum.  Good luck and please do let us know what you find out.

[peteski]

Speed matchign should be done with momentum turned off (since you are trying to get both locos to run at the same speed at each speed step).  Momentum (lag) just makes the matching more complicated/difficult.  Once the speed is matched without momentum, adding the same amount of momentum to both locos will be easy (since that value is predictable).

[davefoxx]

Speed matchign should be done with momentum turned off (since you are trying to get both locos to run at the same speed at each speed step).  Momentum (lag) just makes the matching more complicated/difficult.  Once the speed is matched without momentum, adding the same amount of momentum to both locos will be easy (since that value is predictable).

The same amount of momentum is another problem.  I have a ScaleTrains SD45 with a LokSound 5.  Somehow, it does have the ability to do three-step speed matching with CV2, CV5, and CV6.  Not sure how, but I wish I could update my other LokSound 5 decoders to add this.  Anyhow, that makes speed matching easy to set up as Speed Step 1 at 1 smph, Speed Step 14 at 35 smph, and Speed Step 28 at 70 smph.  However, setting up the momentum, so that it would take approximately 60 seconds to go from 0 to max speed was not working out on the LokSound 5 decoder.  So, I modified CV23 and CV24 by maxing out their settings to 127, which, in the case of my SD45 (LokSound 5) and SD50 (LokSound 4), was perfect!



Now, these two locomotives, representing big horsepower from the 1970s and ‘80s, run great consisted together.



DFF

[tehachapifan]

....I have a ScaleTrains SD45 with a LokSound 5.  Somehow, it does have the ability to do three-step speed matching with CV2, CV5, and CV6.  Not sure how, but I wish I could update my other LokSound 5 decoders to add this.... 

Go to the "Motor Settings" page. At the top under "speed Table" do you see two options listed as;

( ) Use three values (VStart, VMid, VHigh)
( ) Use speed curve

My experience so far is, if you check the first one, you convert to the older CV2, 5 and 6 method....at least it did one the one V5 custom install I've done so far.

[reinhardtjh]

Somehow, it does have the ability to do three-step speed matching with CV2, CV5, and CV6. 

That's one of the internal, firmware differences between the LokSound 5 XXXX and the XXXX DCC version.  The DCC versions are based on NMRA DCC standards (mostly), only support NMRA DCC protocols and has CV6.  The non-DCC decoders are for European markets and have Marklin, Motorola and DCC protocols and are missing CV6.  When you buy decoders separately make sure you know which one you are choosing.  I don't know if Walthers and other Mfg always choose the DCC version or not.

The other difference between the DCC and multi-protocol decoders is the momentum weight.  The DCC decoders use a 0.896 multiplier and the multi-protocol decoders use the European multiplier of 0.25.  All previous versions of the LokSound and LokPilot decoders also use the European multiplier of 0.25 which is something to remember when speed matching older and newer locomotives.  You must set LokSound 5 DCC decoders to have a CV value of 0.28 that of a V4, Select, LokPilot V4 or LokSound 5 non-DCC decoder.

[Steveruger45]

Hi Russ
Yes that’s what I do on the v4selects and v5dcc.  I set both types the same way with exception of the momentum according to the ratio mentioned before.   Not sure what decoder Dave has vis-a-vis v5 dcc or v5 multiprotocol.  I don’t have The latter Because I read somewhere that the v5multiprotocol only has the speed curve.