Author Topic: Hydrogen train beats speed record  (Read 760 times)

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Simon D.

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« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 08:44:01 AM by GaryHinshaw »

Maletrain

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Re: Hydrogen train beats speed record
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2020, 09:43:16 AM »
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Not seeing anything about breaking any speed record.  The article just mentions going 50 mph, which doesn't seem like any sort of feat for a conventionally powered train. 

The real importance would seem to be the demonstration of a realistic way to use zero-(CO2)emissions technology to run trains without having to string electrical wires over tracks or make new rail systems.  Just change the locomotives to use hydrogen and oxygen in fuel cells, and they can use our existing infrastructure everywhere. 

Short passenger trains are one thing -  I wonder how this would work for moving freight.  They would probably need hydrogen "tenders", but that seems totally feasible.

Of course, the real issue about making it "clean" is where the hydrogen comes from.  It takes energy to make that "clean" fuel, and if that energy comes from "dirty" fuel, then there isn't any real improvement.  As with electric automobiles, they are only really clean when the basic energy source used to charge their batteries is solar or wind (or maybe some folks include nuclear).  If the basic energy source is coal, oil or natural gas, then you are really just changing from running your car by burning gasoline or diesel to effectively burning coal or oil or natural gas.

Britain does have a plan to use nuclear power to get to "zero [CO2] emissions", so this fuel cell technology does at least seem to make some sense for them.  However, they really aren't progressing according to plan on their nuclear programs, with 3 of their 6 plants being decommissioned, and only one of the remaining 3 actually being upgraded according to plan.  The public still just does not want nuclear power.  But, running everything on wind and solar is not looking very practical when considering adding all these transportation energy uses to the demand, particularly automobiles, which will be usually recharged at night.

Toyota has now limited its manufacturing of electric battery powered cars because it is betting on hydrogen fuel cells beating out battery power in the medium term future.  I think fuel cells for trains are a much better bet than fuel cells in automobiles.


Simon D.

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Re: Hydrogen train beats speed record
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2020, 10:19:41 AM »
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Breaking the speed limit was the original headline.  Must have been corrected.  @Maletrain - excellent analysis of the issues.

Bryn

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Re: Hydrogen train beats speed record
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2020, 11:08:18 AM »
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Britain does have a plan to use nuclear power to get to "zero [CO2] emissions", so this fuel cell technology does at least seem to make some sense for them.  However, they really aren't progressing according to plan on their nuclear programs, with 3 of their 6 plants being decommissioned, and only one of the remaining 3 actually being upgraded according to plan.  The public still just does not want nuclear power.  But, running everything on wind and solar is not looking very practical when considering adding all these transportation energy uses to the demand, particularly automobiles, which will be usually recharged at night.

Some tangent trivia.

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk

Live time readings of the UKs power supplies. As I write about 17% is nuclear.

Maletrain

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Re: Hydrogen train beats speed record
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2020, 11:39:14 AM »
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Interesting link, Bryn.  Thank you.  I'll be watching that.

nscalbitz

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Re: Hydrogen train beats speed record
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2020, 06:25:33 PM »
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Again, knowledge of the country and inhabitants helps.  8)

It is a heavily populated country with varying density- a lot of it completely covered in motorways that carry most of the freight anyway ( except bulk goods- and how many of those are left?).
However, it is an intensive service country and many people do, and have for decades, travelled by trains for [up to] 2 hours to reach their jobs and home each way daily.

Like Paris (pre-Covid etc. disclaimers)- Londons population doubles in size every work day (+/-10M).
Thus there is a massive transportation need that, apart from Cali and NE Corridor I guess, the US simply doesn't recognise. Branson, ever the punter, sure knows where to look for revenues and breaking down the elite!
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