Kato CN Supercontinental

[basementcalling]

I'm sure Rapido will be happy to sell more of their F units with steam generators thanks to Kato.

[SF Chief]

I'm sure Rapido will be happy to sell more of their F units with steam generators thanks to Kato.

It cuts the other way, too.  I plan to get the Rapido Canadian consist in early CP paint and power it with one of Rapido's FP9As along with two Kato F7Bs, the latter with the shell Kato made for their Milwaukee Road model.  It might not be perfect, but with some painting and detailing it should be pretty close, especially because those F7Bs include the winterization hatches and steam generators.  The Milwaukee F7B shells--appropriately painted--would also look good on the Supercontinental though, as the thread above makes clear, they would not have been totally prototypical. As many have said, it's a good time to be in N-scale. Rick

[CBQ Fan]

So, when exactly did CN start using this black/white/red scheme in passenger use?

[cv_acr]

So, when exactly did CN start using this black/white/red scheme in passenger use?

1961.

[CBQ Fan]

1961.

Thank you!  They are supposed to be coming out in May. Hopefully they are too delayed.

[Ngineer]

Did any of those CN passenger cars Kato will be offering ever travel on US soil? Perhaps just one or two in another passenger train bound for Chicago?

   Javier

[cv_acr]

Did any of those CN passenger cars Kato will be offering ever travel on US soil? Perhaps just one or two in another passenger train bound for Chicago?

   Javier

CN's subsidiary Grand Trunk Western ran to Chicago, and CN/GTW ran a couple of joint trains between Toronto and Chicago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maple_Leaf_(GTW_train)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_(Amtrak_train)#CN/GTW_operation

Also CN and Lehigh Valley had a joint operation between Toronto and New York, although it seems this ended early in 1961 so probably never saw the new black and white colours.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maple_Leaf_(LV_train)

I'm not sure of specific consists for each train though, and it's unlikely CN cars randomly escaped to other routes?

[thomasjmdavis]

Did any of those CN passenger cars Kato will be offering ever travel on US soil? Perhaps just one or two in another passenger train bound for Chicago?

   Javier

Here is the best info I can give you. DISCLAIMER: My own modeling is focused on the mid-50s, but several of the books in my library, plus internet resources, cover later time frames.  I am happy to be proven wrong on any of what is below, if someone has better resources.  So, I may be wrong, but I have made a "good faith effort" to accurately ID the cars.

The real question might be, which cars ever traveled in Canada?

From what I have found so far, Kato has been very creative with history.  CN did indeed buy used equipment from US railroads in the 1960s into the early Amtrak era.  HOWEVER, the "ex-UP" cars in the set are questionable, and I cannot find any reference to their actual existence, except for the coach if it had been correctly painted and numbered for Grand Trunk Western.

So, here goes....  Baggage car (as far as I can tell from CN drawings, and photos online and in books) should be the car done by Rapido. I find no evidence of purchase of a UP baggage car and its being inserted in the middle of a series of NSC built cars. 

Coach- accurate car for that number would be a Rapido "Daynighter" coach.  But, as stated above, the car would be correct for Grand Trunk Western (same paint scheme, numbered in 4800 series, "CN" graphic on car side replaced by "GT" in same font).  Some of these cars were used in original 44 seat configuration on Chicago-Toronto trains and on the Detroit-Chicago "Mohawk" from 1969-Amtrak, and I assume perhaps on some Amtrak trains after that.  Other ex-UP cars were rebuilt with high density seating for use on commuter trains in Detroit.  It may be that some were transferred to CN in 1971 but I have not found any as of now. The number assigned to the coach is one smack in the middle of the "Dayniter" series of cars, and I find no indication they were renumbered while in CN service.

Sleepers are accurate close for CN, although it appears in diagrams that the FEC (not actually PRR- see note below from Point353) car was originally fluted.  However, there are photos of cars in the series having smooth sides, so I suspect CN pulled the fluting off in the initial shopping after acquiring them.  There may have been other alterations made, but the correct (or very close) prototype, correct number, correct name for cars owned by CN.  I haven't found specific evidence of their being used on Chicago trains.  But that said, when traffic was heavy due to holiday travel or weather cancellation of Chicago-Toronto airline flights, the trains carried additional sleepers, which could include CN sleepers that were usually assigned elsewhere.

Observation and dome are, AFAIK, accurate for CN, and were acquired from MILW in the mid or late 60s.  I don't have any materials showing them in use on trains to Chicago, and would expect they stayed on the SuperContinental.

The diner is actually fairly close as a stand in.  But like the coach, there is a CN car from their large order of 1954 that had that number, and I find no information indicating that CN purchased a car from UP and numbered it into the middle of that series of cars.

Diagrams for most CN cars (and also many GTW cars) in use after WWII (and some before) can be found here: http://www.cnrha.ca/node/1092
And Jerry Laboda's Passenger Car Photo Index has several pages dedicated to CN photos: http://passcarphotos.rypn.org/

[Point353]

Sleepers are accurate for CN, although it appears in diagrams that the PRR car was originally fluted.  However, there are photos of cars in the series having smooth sides, so I suspect CN pulled the fluting off in the initial shopping after acquiring them. 

The "ex-PRR" car was actually an ex-FEC car: http://www.cnrphotos.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=55739

[thomasjmdavis]

The "ex-PRR" car was actually an ex-FEC car: http://www.cnrphotos.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=55739

Thanks. I don't know how I missed that.  Somehow my eye skipped right over the car listing on the Passenger Car Photo site.   

[Angus Shops]

I’m no CN expert, but I can add this: In the mid 60’s CN went on a bit of ‘used passenger car purchasing spree’. CN was making a last and earnest effort to promote its passenger service, with new trains such as the Turbos and Rapido Montreal/Toronto trains, new fare structures (Red/White/Blue), reconditioned cars and etc. They bought and leased cars from a wide range of US lines, including sleepers from NYC, FEC, RI, BAR, B&M, SLSF, N&W/NPK, and likely others. They also bought the Reading Crusader trainset and leased Budd short domes from B&O. From the Milwaukee Road they purchased 6 Skytop cars (CN “Skyview” ‘Bay’ series) use only, as far as I know, in eastern Canada, 6 of Milwaukee’s big domes for use in western Canada, and a number of Milwaukee Lake series sleepers. Quite an eclectic mix of cars and you could be excused for accepting almost anything in CN paint as ‘possible’...
Geoff