Zimo MX660 in an NW2 (video added)

[tehachapifan]

Thanks, John. Sounds good! Regarding files, I see one called "12-567" and another simply called "NW2" on the Zimo website.

[jdcolombo]

Thanks, John. Sounds good! Regarding files, I see one called "12-567" and another simply called "NW2" on the Zimo website.

Ah.  It's the 12-567 file - or at least that's what Bryan had written on the box.

John C.

[tehachapifan]

OK, thanks!

[peteski]

Bryan loads the default "AMerican" sound project which gives a basic diesel and steam sound. You should be able to find a better sound file.  You can either send the decoder to Bryan to get it reprogrammed, or to me (assuming the sound file you want is free).  I have the programmer.

[jdcolombo]

Bryan loads the default "AMerican" sound project which gives a basic diesel and steam sound. You should be able to find a better sound file.  You can either send the decoder to Bryan to get it reprogrammed, or to me (assuming the sound file you want is free).  I have the programmer.

Just to avoid confusion - in this case, Bryan specifically loaded the 12-567 sound file before sending me the decoder (I confirmed that with him).  What you hear on the video is the "12-567" file (a free file) from the Zimo database, uploaded in March of 2016.  There is another file marked "NW2" in the Zimo database that I think is from 2012, but that's NOT the file used here (at least, that's my understanding).

One of the things that is confusing about Zimo's business model is that they have two different kinds of sound files.  "Free" ones, that are done by Zimo's own employees, and "Coded" files done by 3d parties.  In order to load a "coded" file onto a Zimo decoder, you have to pay for a code - something between $25-$35, depending on the file.  While this is a good way to incentivize 3d-party developers, it gets a bit confusing for the end user.   As an end user, I like ESU's model better - ALL their files are "free" (I use the quotation marks, because nothing in life is really "free" - one way or another, you pay).  And Zimo seems to keep around old sound files even when newer versions have been uploaded, as appears to be the case here.

This particular sound file has grown on me, but it still has some common Zimo deficiencies - for example, the horns are not "playable" but rather are fixed-length.  That means you can't do a traditional "Long, Long, Short, Long" grade crossing horn sequence.  Zimo's sound developer fixed this for the EMD 16-cyl 567 file when I was playing around with it a couple of years ago, but apparently didn't fix it for the 12-cyl file.  Also, this particular file doesn't have a single-chime horn.  The list of available horns is here:

http://www.zimo.at/soundprojekte/zimo/EMD_12-567/EMD_12-567_description.pdf

Another oddity of this file is that by default, the headlight is set up as a ditch light - it blinks on and off when you blow the horn or turn on the bell.  There's an easy fix for this (explained in the linked document), but it shows that whoever did the sound file doesn't really understand US prototype railroad practice very well.

Zimo needs their own version of ESU's Matt Hermann.  The hardware is superb.  My NW2 has never run this well.  You can see on the video how it creeps when I crack open the throttle and the prime mover throttles up from idle.  It's just amazing.  The software, however, leaves something to be desired.  It's not bad, just not in ESU's league, IMHO.  If they did a couple of simple things, like making the horn playable and adding a single-chime horn (the 12-cylinder 567 was primarily a switcher engine, and switchers didn't have multi-chime horns), the file would be pretty darn good - comparable to ESU's file.  As it stands, the file is pretty good, but has some annoying issues. 

John C.

[High Hood]

The multi-chime horn sounds like a Nathan M5 to me.  If it is an M5, Zimo's sounds much better than Loksound's current M5.

[tehachapifan]

Just installed the MX660 in my Kato NW2 using the above as a guide (thanks, John! ). Runs and sounds great, although I still need to install lights...oh, and paint the shell . One thing I noticed is, despite how low-profile this board is, the shell would not seat all the way down and would ride quite high as compared to the normal, ultra-low riding shell these models have. I had to do quite a bit of Dremel work on the inside of the shell where the taller components would contact the shell to get it to seat down closer to normal. It's still a tad high, but pretty close now and I don't want to to any more Dremel work as I can see by light passing through that I'm pushing it already. Too bad about not having a single chime horn option with this file. Not sure what to do as most if not all of SP's NW2's had single chimes. At any rate, I'm also very pleased overall with this sound file despite it's aformentioned shortcomings.

Update....I programmed it to the Nathan M3 (37) horn selection and found that it can reasonably pass as a single chime more or less. Plus, it has a very short burst versus the long playout of the other choices, so it's a bit more "playable" for grade crossings, etc.

Also, man, do I like the random compressor in both this file and the updated 16-567 file! It is wicked cool!

[jdcolombo]

Hi Russ.

Hmmm.  When I test-fit the original CB&Q shell on my NW2, it seemed to fit fine (see photo on first page of this thread).  Can you tell from that photo if the shell is sitting in the right place, or is it really too high (I use LL shells on my NW2's, painted for the NKP, so I'm not really sure what the original shell is supposed to look like . . . )

John C.

[carlso]

Very well done, John C., and thanks for posting your work for all to share. Are you sure you are not KATO's "Kobo Shop" ? ?

Regards,
Carl

[tehachapifan]

Hi Russ.

Hmmm.  When I test-fit the original CB&Q shell on my NW2, it seemed to fit fine (see photo on first page of this thread).  Can you tell from that photo if the shell is sitting in the right place, or is it really too high (I use LL shells on my NW2's, painted for the NKP, so I'm not really sure what the original shell is supposed to look like . . . )

John C.

It looks like it might also be a little high. When it is seated all the way down, it is very low-riding and noticeably lower than my LL switchers and my Arnold SW1. So, you can visually get away with it riding a bit high. The biggest issue I noticed was, with it riding high, the convex frame side locking nubs were malaligned with the indents in the shell and this pinched the frame together enough to keep one of the trucks from swiveling as freely.

On the bottom of the NW2 frame, there are two little hooks on the front and rear that I believe the inside of the shell normally comes all the way down and rests on. You'll also notice that the inside of Kato shell has a couple very deep indents in the top of the shell where the taller stock light board components sit and the stock board is really pretty low-profile to start with. Although it's doable, there's really actually very little room in there when components are located in different spots. I had also previously noticed that another brand decoder made specifically for this unit also keeps the front of the shell from seating all the way down.

[jdcolombo]

It looks like it might also be a little high. When it is seated all the way down, it is very low-riding and noticeably lower than my LL switchers and my Arnold SW1. So, you can visually get away with it riding a bit high. The biggest issue I noticed was, with it riding high, the convex frame side locking nubs were malaligned with the indents in the shell and this pinched the frame together enough to keep one of the trucks from swiveling as freely.

On the bottom of the NW2 frame, there are two little hooks on the front and rear that I believe the inside of the shell normally comes all the way down and rests on. You'll also notice that the inside of Kato shell has a couple very deep indents in the top of the shell where the taller stock light board components sit and the stock board is really pretty low-profile to start with. Although it's doable, there's really actually very little room in there when components are located in different spots. I had also previously noticed that another brand decoder made specifically for this unit also keeps the front of the shell from seating all the way down.

Thanks for the explanation.  Good to know for folks wanting to try this with the original Kato shells.  It might be possible to shave just a bit from the frame and the motor saddle to get a tad of extra space.  I didn't need to do this for the LL shell, and you certainly can't do MUCH, but it might be one of those "every little bit helps" situations.

And my recollection is that I did have to sand off the nubs to keep the trucks swiveling freely even with my LL shell.

John C.

[tehachapifan]

John, You might be happy to hear I found that you can actually make at least some of the horn selections in this file (at least almost) fully-playable by using the "CV#300 procedures". You may get a bit of a audible loop marker (the one horn I tried this with so far did but it was not too bad) but at least it works. Well, I did try it with another horn selection that already has very short blasts and it wouldn't work correctly with that one. The specific section on this is on page 40 of the Zimo manual at....

http://www.zimo.at/web2010/documents/MX-KleineDecoder_E.pdf

The whole section on the CV#300 procedures should be read in detail first as it can be confusing but, in a nutshell, you can accomplish this by setting CV#300 to 2 (on the main [ops mode], not on the programming track and the loco address cannot be 3), then make sure F7 is selected before storing/ending (F8) if you want the horn to be shortened when releasing the F2 button early (it cuts out the center of the sound sample) and make sure F6 is selected before storing/ending with F8 if you want the horn to keep sounding as long as F2 is pressed. Not perfect but pretty cool!

[tehachapifan]

I'm really liking this 12-567 file more and more too, especially now that I got the horn to be more playable. Really high-quality, convincing sound and right up there with my LokSound-equipped locos. It may help that there's a lot of room in the cab area in the Kato NW2 with the interior detail removed, where I was able to fit a pretty large custom speaker enclosure...probably the deepest yet out of all my installs. I actually passed up on trying this file out for quite some time as I don't have a Zimo programmer and there wasn't a sound sample at the Zimo library to listen to, so I didn't want to order a decoder with that file blindly (there's a few other samples there that, frankly, don't sound all that good to me but others that do, plus more with no samples). So, thanks for blazing this trail and providing an opportunity to hear this one here, John!

[tehachapifan]

One more note …..

One thing I noticed with using the "CV#300 Procedures" with at least this particular file is, when scrolling through the sound options while in that mode, the sounds play at a much higher (max?) volume than I would like or had them previously set. One page 40, the manual linked above says to use the "speed regulator" to adjust the volume while using CV#300 procedures but that doesn't seem to do anything while still in the CV#300 Procedures mode...at least not with my controller and/or perhaps this file. However, it does effect the final volume of that particular sound after exiting CV#300 which, with at least my controller, is a blind way to adjust these volumes (I don't see any type of volume numbers displayed to use as a guide). If no adjustment is made with the speed regulator prior to exiting, that particular sound will play at that higher (max?) setting during normal ops. Conversely, if I roll the speed regulator way left while still in CV#300, that sound may be inaudible after exiting even though the volume never lowered while still in CV#300. So, with at least this file, I've found it necessary to (re)adjust the individual volume CV(s) of these sounds after exiting CV#300. On a previous Zimo install with a different sound file, I seem to recall the speed regulator adjusting the volume of the samples while still in CV#300 mode. However, it's been a while since I made any CV#300 adjustments with that one.

[jdcolombo]

Hi Russ.

Thanks for all the info.  I haven't gotten deeply into the programming of Zimo sound decoders, mostly because 99.9% of my sound installs are ESU.  So this info will be a big help to folks who might want to try the MX660.  Like I said before, I think Zimo makes a terrific product - and I do think the sounds of the 12-567 file (and the 16-cylinder 567 file that they worked on when I was playing around with it) are very good.  They just don't have the breadth/depth for US prototypes that ESU has, and the files sometimes have some quirks that have to be fixed by the end-user.  But there's just no good way to "sound-i-fy" something like an NW2 other than with the MX660.  And since competition helps everyone, I'm cheering Zimo on . . .

John C.