Removing flywheels from LifeLike motors?

[drgw0579]

For whatever reason, I have a Lifelike C Liner with a bad motor. I've been watching for something  comparable on the auction site that I could get cheap enough that I wouldn't feel bad about scrapping, but the prices for those are holding up pretty well. 

But I found than the motor from an Intermountain FT looks to be the same.  Except the flywheels are bigger.  Anyone have any experience removing flywheels from these motors?  Prying with a screw driver is out.  I am hoping the shafts are the same size, but without getting the flywheels off, I can't measure.  Micro-Mark has a miniature gear puller listed 82392 and I don't feel bad about buying it if I knew it was small enough.

I guess since the majority of N scale locomotives are made in the same factories, that many parts are interchangeable.  Maybe someday we can create a cross-listing of parts for the locomotives we figure will never get re-run.

But then again, availability of replacement parts is a big reason why Atlas and Kato locomotives are preferred on my railroad!

Bill Kepner

[Joetrain59]

The Micro Mark puller will work, but it's not of great quality. Do you have a shop vise?
 Joe D

[carlso]

Bill, please allow me to borrow your thread.

Joe D - can you simply explain the use of the vise to remove flywheels? I can see how to install a a flywheel, not smart enough to remove one.

Carl

[drgw0579]

yes, I have a shop vise and I have a torch.

[mmagliaro]

This Micro Mark puller is actually the NWSL "The Puller"




I ended up writing a book... sorry!


The Puller works pretty well, and can get some flywheels off.  You slip the V plate behind the flywheel and then turn the
press bolt to drive the shaft out.    It will likely be a 1.5mm shaft, and if it is, the smaller press bolt, which is 1/16"
will work well enough to get it out.  1.5mm is really .059" and 1/16 is .062", but for the purposes of pressing
out a shaft like this, I've found that it works.  The .003" is close enough that you can press out the shaft without
enlarging the flywheel hole enough to ruin it.

The problem is that sometimes, those flywheels are so tight on those motor shafts, that even this puller
can't get that thing to budge, and the 1/16" press shaft will actually bend before it can push that shaft out.
If you put a lot of pressure on it and it still won't move, try tapping the flywheel gently but sharply with a small
metal hammer.  Sometimes that quick shock will cause the shaft to "let go" and start moving out.

If the Puller can't do it.. yep... a bench vise is one way to go.  You can go two ways with this, that I know of.

WEAR EYE PROTECTION.
WEAR EYE PROTECTION.
WEAR EYE PROTECTION.

1. You procure a strong, thin "V" plate.   I bought some 1" square scraps of various thicknesses of stainless steel
from a local sheet metal shop.  I used a Dremel with a diamond cutoff wheel to cut a "V" notch in it.  It took a while,
even with diamond.  Stainless steel is HARD.  But that's the idea.  Then you slip the V plate in behind the flywheel,
and hang the motor between the jaws of the vise by the V plate.  Close the jaws as far as you can, with the motor
in between them, without actually clamping onto the motor.  Then use a punch and a hammer to tap the shaft
out.  I use old broken wire drills for this.  They are hard and straight and do a good job.  You can take something like
a #61 wire drill, cut off the smooth shank part with a Dremel, and use that as your punch.

Some people make V plates out of a single edge razor blade.  Those things are really tough and thin.

2. If you don't care about the old flywheel, you can just clamp that thing really tight in the vise jaws and punch out the shaft.

3. If the flywheel sticks out beyond the body of the motor on either side, you can hang the motor by the flywheel itself,
with the motor hanging between the vise jaws, and punch the motor out.

------------------
If you have a mill or drill press, this is the best way of all.  Hang the motor by the V plate (you need a vise under
the drill press), put the wire drill in the drill press chuck, and then gently just lower the drill press head and push
the shaft right out.  This by far the most gentle, most controlled way to do it.  And for really really tough cases,
it works when nothing else will.  You can let just a little nub of that wire drill stick out of the drill press chuck,
and locate it exactly into the center of the motor shaft, giving a nice firm push.  It can put incredible, controlled pressure
on the shaft without snapping off the drill bit punch.   Some Trix motor worm gears are so nasty I do them this way.

[Joetrain59]

Max, I did not know MM has that puller now I have the one made in India.
 To use a shop vise, put some tape on jaws if you don't want to mar the old flywheel. Clamp flywheel in vise, and use a fine nail setter or likewise to tap shaft from flywheel.
 Joe D

[peteski]

I would be afraid that clamping the flywheel in vise jaws could distort it slightly, causing it to be out of balance (if it is to be reused).

[rrjim1]

I have removed and installed flywheels on around 30-40 motors. When pressing flywheels back on, be very careful, you can move the commutator and damage the motor. I use a brass insert that goes inside the first installed flywheel so I only press on the motor shaft. I also use a brass piece with a hole drill part way in to slip over the shaft when pressing the first flywheel on. I built my own pullers so I can't recommend one, but some HO slot car manufactures make some really strong gear pullers. 

[mmagliaro]

I would be afraid that clamping the flywheel in vise jaws could distort it slightly, causing it to be out of balance (if it is to be reused).

+1
 

[randgust]

The only thing I think I need to add is to suspend cheap plastic shopping bag to catch the motor UNDER the vise or whatever is holding the steel "V" plate as you're tapping the flywheel out, as the motor never lets go when you think it will, and you'll bounce it down off the (concrete) floor when you least expect it.

I don't put the flywheel itself in the vise - I put the "V" plate across the jaws of an open vise with the vise stabilizing, but not really clamping, the motor, and lightly tap it out with the drill bit trick.  I've never had any luck with finding a puller the right size.   I agree with the statement that tapping seems to do something that a torqued push doesn't in terms of getting things apart.  I don't have drill press, either.

Another trick to add when you're putting flywheels back on is to heat them up with a butane torch a bit if they don't want to go back on smoothly.   Don't try that stunt getting them off, chances are you'll hit something around the motor with the torch, and goodbye motor.  My personal guideline for driving on a flywheel is that it's got to be between about .002 and .005, tolerance depending on material and how good a job you think you did redrilling the hole if you had to, etc.     I do have a good micrometer and I use it in these situations.

ALSO, this entire thing works with worm gears and motors.  If you look at the Weekend Update, I had to take that brass worm off of the 3.5v pager motor, redrill it, and mount it on the Kato motor as the shaft diameters were different.  All with the same technique, on absurdly tiny motors.

[Doug G.]

And the main thing to be reiterated when driving flywheels or gears back on (or off, for that matter) is that you must ALWAYS apply force ONLY to the motor shaft ends, never to either end of the armature assembly. You don't want to be driving the motor shaft through the armature or otherwise damaging things.

Doug

[mmagliaro]

The only thing I think I need to add is to suspend cheap plastic shopping bag to catch the motor UNDER the vise or whatever is holding the steel "V" plate as you're tapping the flywheel out, as the motor never lets go when you think it will, and you'll bounce it down off the (concrete) floor when you least expect it.

....

EXCELLENT observation!   Yes, holding my hand under the vise usually has about a 50/50 shot at actually
catching the motor when it lets go.  The other 50% of the time, it's slip, drop, bounce, roll,
under the workbench, some bad words, scouring around with a flashlight, cleaning all the dust bunnies
off it, hoping it works, more bad words...