Author Topic: Good bad and I don't know...  (Read 1807 times)

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CBQ Fan

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Good bad and I don't know...
« on: October 25, 2015, 06:44:56 PM »
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So I had a job change at work and no longer need my home office which shared the same room with my layout.  Good news is I now have the whole room to devote to the layout!  Bad news is the building where I am now commuting will be phased out in approximately 2 years and I will be moving my group to a new location.  When this happens I will have to move closer.  The I don't know....how much more do I invest in this current layout?  I would do a major reconfiguration if I where not going to move.  I will use the current bench work and some modules in a new layout but it would be significantly different. Thought? Past experiences you can share??  Thanks.
Brian

Way of the Zephyr

johnb

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Re: Good bad and I don't know...
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2015, 07:51:45 PM »
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I personally wouldn't invest much into it if it is not movable. Dave Volmer's PRR layout shows that a decently sized layout can be moved

up1950s

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Re: Good bad and I don't know...
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2015, 08:28:52 PM »
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Now is the time to build kits , weather , bash , and do R&D on a new crib and the locations you may want to live in .


Richie Dost

badlandnp

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Re: Good bad and I don't know...
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2015, 10:51:33 PM »
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I agree with building and weathering and detailing and researching. Honing all of those needed skills, but if the bug to add trackage bites hard, be sure to make it a new removeable/modular extension. That way it can maybe be included in the relocated iayout. You didn't mention if the current layout is small enough to move or is built such that you can disassemble it?
Northern Pacific in the Badlands, in N-scale of course!

nkalanaga

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Re: Good bad and I don't know...
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2015, 01:29:38 AM »
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Another thing you can do, if finances permit, is to stock up on track and other stuff you know you'll need.  I did that for years, and had enough to build my layout.  And, if your preferred manufacturer doesn't keep stuff in stock, you can buy it when it's available, and not worry about whether it will be there when you're ready to build.
N Kalanaga
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robert3985

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Re: Good bad and I don't know...
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2015, 02:03:04 AM »
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Good advice all around. 

However, it's pretty easy to design your layout in "units" that come apart easily and can be easily transported.

Here are the parameters I've discovered over the years designing and transporting my portable layout. 

(1) Maximum size of a portable unit (with the rare exception) is 6' long X 3' deep. Note that this doesn't mean to build to that dimension, but that is the MAXIMUM size.  I've got one unit designed that will be 8' long simply because I struggled with where to divide it because of a river and several bridges, and finally decided it would be easiest to just make it 8' long...
(2) Design in integral, folding legs with commercial glides for feet that allow at least 3" of up/down height adjustment
(3) Design for and use quality electrical connectors (with a color coded electrical wiring scheme) at each unit's edge
(4) Design and use an integral, but removable (to ease transportation when needed) skyboard whose supports allow placement of lighting fixtures so that each unit has its own quality lighting.
(5) Use wood or metal for the structural components (including subroadbed) and lightweight extruded Polystyrene for your scenery base.

I've moved five times since starting my portable layout, and although its configuration has changed because of the size of the available space in each location, it has been relatively easy to construct transition units when the layout needs reconfiguring to fit the available space.

I also regularly (as many as four times a year) break down portions of my layout to take to local shows.  Presently, I have three LDE's which go with me, and my fellow "crazy" Gregg Cudworth has one LDE.  These form a roughly 36' X 15' display layout with irregular, flowing fascias, integral lighting with skyboards, a small crew compartment at one end, and a 52" railhead to floor height for viewing by adult model railroaders.

I eventually plan on having a 40' X 40' space to set up all of my LDE's into a representation of the UP between Ogden UT and the top of the grade at Wahsatch UT.  However, making my layout in 6' lengths means that when I finish an LDE, I can store the finished ones, and continue on working on the rest of the layout...setting up in different configurations at shows until I move one last time and acquire the space I need.

Even if i were not designing a portable layout, I would still ensure that my layout could be easily broken down and transported by designing it in 6' units.  Nowadays, ya never know when you might have to move, and when you get to be my age, if I were to kick the bucket or become incapacitated, it would be a great comfort to me to know that my layout would not have to be destroyed, but could be sold or donated and easily moved.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore


OldEastRR

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Re: Good bad and I don't know...
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2015, 05:09:26 AM »
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It's a good thing to differentiate between "portable" layouts and "movable" layouts. The first are layouts that are designed and built as units to be repeatedly broken down and reassembled. The various "trak" versions of modules comes to mind.
The "moveable" layout isn't designed to be regularly broken down and reassembled. It is built so, if and when any move is needed, it can be disassembled with tools into parts that can be easily transported. This avoids overbuilding legs and framework that are needed for stand-alone sections, and eliminates quick-connect electrical receptacles that may only need to be disconnected once in the life of the layout, or never.
I agree with Bob that the largest sections of a layout like this be no bigger than 6'x3' (Actually I prefer only 2.5' width).
Simply put, a moveable layout splits the framework from the benchwork that carries the trains and scenery. The legs, struts, supports and crossbeams are built as one unit. This means long continuous beams and legs spaced out as per needed, not every 4 feet. It's exactly like building the frame for a open grid layout. This gives you a strong stable and very open base. Use screws and bolts so the entire assembly can be broken down into separate boards.
The layout sections are built and fitted together like a big jigsaw puzzle on this open framework. Again none of these sections should be bigger than 6x3. By studying your track plan and proposed scenery and towns as areas, you'll see where you can group similar features on its own section: town, seaport, industrial area, yard and shops, etc.
Once you have your jigsaw puzzle assembled, attach 1x2s on edge across the solid framework, wherever needed to support your individual sections then attach the sections to them. This is to give you some working room for wiring, switch machines, etc between the bottom of the scenery section and the framework.
Then just build the track and scenery like on a traditional layout. No joints between sections, no electric connectors, no short track pieces to connect section tracks together. Continuous rails, continuous wiring, eliminating all the portable layout problems of sections moving out of alignment, track shifting at the joints, and more electrical connections that can corrode.
If the layout does need to be moved, it's a much simpler and less time consuming task of cutting rails and wires at section joints than building all the infrastructure of a truly portable layout.
Personally, I've found that portable layouts -- unless built by professionals -- have problems with attaching to each other, track misalignments, table height matching, and the general overall work it takes to build them up, assemble them as a group, and then break them down. If you don't plan on doing that regularly with your layout, you might want to avoid that kind of construction.

up1950s

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Re: Good bad and I don't know...
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2015, 07:36:46 AM »
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I personally wouldn't invest much into it if it is not movable. Dave Volmer's PRR layout shows that a decently sized layout can be moved

But he doesn't tell that his family owns C-17's .


Richie Dost

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Re: Good bad and I don't know...
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2015, 07:35:22 PM »
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Great ideas and suggestions. My layout is broken down into 7 tables of which 4-5 can stand alone.  The 2-3 would just need 2 extra legs each cut and attached to stand alone.  I would have to pull up track and do something with the wiring. 
Brian

Way of the Zephyr

robert3985

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Re: Good bad and I don't know...
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2015, 08:20:52 PM »
+2
Just to clarify a few points about "portable" vs "movable" and a few assumptions that are common, but not automatically valid.

First, my information comes from over 30 years of personally building both modular and "portable" sections.  Several of my layout sections are over 20 years old and have been moved and transported too many times for me to take time to count.

My layout sections are not modular and are designed to be set up in a specific manner.  That's why I use the terms "unit" or "section" rather than "module".

However, each LDE (comprised of two to four sections) does possess modular ends as far as trackage and electrical connectivity is concerned, allowing my LDE's to be bolted to each other in several different ways.  I also attempt to make the scenery contours match up, but it's not a priority.

I construct each section just like I would construct non-portable benchwork, except each section has 3/4" CDX sanded-one-side plywood on the ends.  Construction is simple, comprised of twin L-girders made from 1X4 premium pine, with cross beams and risers (pine and redwood) supporting splined Masonite subroadbed.  All construction follows good carpentry practice, meaning all joints are both glued and screwed, and square where called for.

As opposed to  "...I've found that portable layouts -- unless built by professionals -- have problems with attaching to each other, track misalignments, table height matching, and the general overall work it takes to build them up, assemble them as a group, and then break them down. If you don't plan on doing that regularly with your layout, you might want to avoid that kind of construction."...I build all of my sections to my own standards (which eliminates workmanship quality problems common in modular clubs) and getting my sections ready to "move" is comprised of 9 quick steps.  With my son assisting me, I can have seven sections ready to load in the trailer in an hour or less.  Doing it by myself, I take my time and it usually takes me an evening (about four hours) working in my layout room and being careful.

When I lay complex trackage for my LDE's, after securing the sections together and making them as even and level as possible, I lay the track over the section ends, secure (glue) it, then cut the rails with a very thin metal cut-off saw blade using my smallest Dremel (no ugly, problem-causing connecting tracks).  This makes the rails perfectly aligned, and they do not magically become misaligned over time, even having detached and transported each section numerous times.

I have also not had a single problem in over 30 years of the connectors between sections corroding.  Up until 6 years ago, I used Cinch-Jones connectors and never had a problem with them.  When I changed my wiring to new, non-rat's-nest DCC wiring 6 years ago, I replaced the old Cinch-Jones connectors with color-coded Anderson Powerpoles.  I use genuine 3M Scotchlok connectors for every wire-to-wire connection, and I have not had a single problem with corrosion or poor electrical contact...as opposed to previously soldered joints...and I know how to solder.

So, I do not have any (ANY) of the "problems" (" ...No joints between sections, no electric connectors, no short track pieces to connect section tracks together. Continuous rails, continuous wiring, eliminating all the portable layout problems of sections moving out of alignment, track shifting at the joints, and more electrical connections that can corrode.") that some people think automatically plague portable layouts.

Plus, I can guarantee that when you take your layout apart, both the sawing of scenery and the tracks, cutting of electrical connections (and labeling them for proper reconnection)...then, when you put it back together in the new location...having to level the benchwork, register the tracks up and sideways (and repair the rails you cut), repair the scenery, reconnect the wiring by soldering and shrink-tubing the joints...that THIS repairing, re-soldering, re-laying damaged track, etc...is going to take MUCH longer than if you'd just made the sections portable in the first place.

So, if you want to build your addition to your present layout over the next 2 years...then move...do it with portability in mind using modular practices that apply, and ignoring those that don't.  It'll save you a lot of work later.

When I finally find the permanent home for my layout (with living space attached for me) I'll continue to build my remaining LDE's in exactly the same way as I do now since I have had zero problems...and why mess with a good thing?

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

OldEastRR

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Re: Good bad and I don't know...
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2015, 01:14:32 AM »
+1
The key being everything built precisely to exacting standards. If you are definitely going to move in 2 years, the portable sections method is the logical way to go.
My version was based on "might have to move layout". The portable method is for the "will have to move layout"  premise.

JMaurer1

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Re: Good bad and I don't know...
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2015, 11:33:44 AM »
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In the past I always built my layouts in 'blocks' that bolted together. I never expected to have to move them, but it sure made it easier to take one outside to work on or into the garage to paint or do scenery on. I would just skim scenery material at the joins and not solder rail joints where they crossed from one 'block' to the next. Made things easy to work on and easy to move...
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Doc Frankenfield

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Re: Good bad and I don't know...
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2015, 02:06:39 PM »
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a tip for modular layouts,  Place plastic wrap between sections when you build your scenery and then remove. the result is an invisible seam that separates easily