Help!...NYC colors

[arbomambo]

Arggggghhh....
Hello all....
I'm looking for advice on the best matches for NYC's 'Pacemaker Green', Pacemaker dark and light grays'....I have some head end cars for my ATSF Fast Mail in the queue and don't have a clue as to the best matches for colors...I prefer to use Acrylics...specifically Pollyscale acrylics (while they last....)
Thanks,
~Bruce

[brokemoto]

Join the ya-HOO! P&LE group for the Pacemaker Green.  The formula is in its archives.  Pacemaker Green is very important to P&LE modellers for the period 1948-1970 (or so) as all P&LE freight diseasels and yard goats were painted that color.

There was a paint manufacturer who sold Pacemaker Red.  Pacemaker Grey is the lighter NYC grey.

[OldEastRR]

When did NYC change over 50' single door boxes paint jobs to green cars with the big oval herald?

[brokemoto]

I am assuming that you mean the Jade Green with the so-called 'cigar band' herald.  Jade Green is not to be confused with Pacemaker Green.  Pacemaker Green is a dark green that is close to Pullman Green.  Jade Green is much lighter.

By 'oval herald', I assume that you really mean the 'cigar band' herald.  It was oval in shape, but had a rectangular component in the middle part

        NEW YORK
CENTRAL
         SYSTEM

The large 'CENTRAL' was in rectangular field.  The NEW YORK and SYSTEM were black or red and CENTRAL was always black (with one exception, of which I am aware, that is; for the P&LE).

There was an 'oval' NYCS herald, and it was called that.  It appeared mostly either with a red or black field and white script.  There was a one with a white outline and white script.  There was a 1957 Variation; the so-called 'script', 'skyline' or 'Water Level' variation.

220 Park Avenue decreed the Cigar Band paint scheme in 1957.  It went first to the locomotives, as it was cheaper than the lightning stripe scheme.  P&LE, a subsidiary that had money, painted quickly.  NYC proper was broke, so there were still some in lightning stripe even to PC.

The Jade Green/Cigar Band scheme on the freight cars started to appear in numbers in early 1958, although there may have been some as early as 1957.  It did not appear on passenger cars until PC.  The Jade Green color persisted into PC, but with the 'Worms in Love' herald.

There were some P&LE cars that were freight car red that had a variation of the Cigar Band herald in the 1960s.

I have never seen a photograph of a Jade Green freight cars with the pre-1957 oval herald.

[arbomambo]

Thanks, but no...
Pacemaker green...headend cars...express box cars from converted troop sleepers....











I'd like to paint one of them in the pacemaker green, and the other in the two-tone gray scheme with pin stripes (these were leased by NYC)...both schemes were seen on ATSF's fast mail...

the jade green seems to be available by a number of paint manufacturers....if I completely trusted my eyes, I'd go to the local hobby shop and find the Walthers HO version and try to match the paint by eye...I, generally, for N scale, lighten colors just a shade to account for scale effect.
Thanks,
~Bruce


PS- I just went through all of my paints...including Tamiya, Floquil, Pollyscale, and Testors ModelMaster formulas...I have a total of 29 bottles of 'green' including Luftwaffe RLM colors, Railroad colors, Russian air Force colors, Japanese IJN colors, Nato colors, etc....

Again...if I could just find a 'formula' for mixing, I could certainly make do...but I don't have the first clue what the color is...and photos from the era can't be relied upon...
is it close to Pullman green?...Coach green?

[mmagliaro]

Scalecoat makes a NYC Light Gray and NYC Dark Gray.  I always used those on 2-tone NYC gray stuff (like passenger
cars), if that helps.  Don't know about the green.

Scalecoat paints:
http://www.weavermodels.com/page11.html

[wcfn100]

If you don't think you can shift Pullman green to something more Olive in color, I bet there's a military green that would work with some black added.


Jason

[mmagliaro]

I found this reference in another forum, which is referencing a Nov 1991 MR article:


Here is the text of the Nov. 91 MR:
I'd like to model some early diesels of the Pittsburgh & Lake Erie. I lived along the P&LE main line in the late 1950s and early 1960s, and I remember seeing switchers and GP7s painted an olive drab color. Can you tell me what this color was and which model paint matches it? - Stanley W. Craig II, Knoxville, Ark.
The color on those locomotives was known as Pacemaker Green. After some experimenting, I came up with a Scalecoat mix that's close to the prototype paint chip: 3 parts no. 72 CN Green, 3 parts no. 15 Reefer Yellow, and 1 part no. 1 Loco Black. - J. S. W.

[arbomambo]

good discussion...
I'm ll for the simplified scheme too!..in fact, I've painted the car and I'm satisfied with the color...it's a dark olive; again, RLM 80 (used late war on Me-109's, FW-190's, and Me-262's)...looks 'right', and is a distinctly different shade than the Santa Fe coach green that the heavyweights sport, and different than the dark green of the Santa Fe express boxcars.
 I have the numbers still to add (I need to research this) and add NYC reporting marks above the numbers...clean, then flat coat. Here is the car, quickly, placed on the layout, between the 'in progress' Horse Express, and a couple of ATSF Express boxcars.
Thanks,
~Bruce