Author Topic: Feeder wires  (Read 4845 times)

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FEC Railway

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Feeder wires
« on: October 11, 2012, 01:08:59 AM »
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All,
Many thanks for the help with the track in my earlier post.  The micro-engineering track I purchased should do the trick - AND I managed to find what I needed.  Im going to re-use my old Code-80 in the yard and industrial area of my layout (its very small, anyway) in order to save money...

I do have one question - Feeder wires...
Intent here is a quick DC working layout in the next 7 days when all the track gets here.   I'd like to then add feeder wires to every 4 feet or so of track including the yard and sidings.
1. whats a good source for functioning wire "on the cheap" - lowes? home depot?
2. whats the best method to link them all together (im guessing to the power source) in order to allow cheap, easy and quick conversion to DCC sometime around the first of the year...

robert3985

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Re: Feeder wires
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2012, 04:28:12 AM »
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Here's what I've learned about DCC wiring, and wiring for layouts in general.

Feeders.  For reliable, trouble-free operation, each piece of rail should have its own feeder.  This means that you NEVER rely on rail joiners to carry current on your layout.  They are only for track alignment.

So, if you're using ME flex, you should plan on one feeder on each rail near the middle of each piece of flex, whether that piece is 1" long or 3' long.

Does that mean you're going to have a lot of feeders?  Yup.

Feeders should only be about 6" long, and I use 22 ga. solid copper wire.

If you're worried about appearance, solder the feeders to the bottoms of the rails (the rail "foot").

If you're not worried about appearance, bend the feeders at a nearly 90deg. angle and solder them to the sides of the outsides of the rails.

Use a 30 Watt iron with a wedge tip that's clean and tinned for each solder joint. Always use a non-acid flux to aid your soldering (IMPORTANT!).

Touch your iron to both rail and feeder at the same time, and feed a little solder to the joint.  Don't try and solder your feeders by placing the iron on top of the rail, or you will melt ties.

If you're melting ties, cut the spacers away three ties on either side of where you're going to be soldering your feeders to the rails, and slide them away from the planned feeder position.  After the joint has cooled, slide the ties back in place.  Voila!  No melted ties.

On a small layout, you'll easily get by with 14 or 16 ga power busses for DCC.  These should be high quality stranded copper wire.

I use this color code: Feeders...RED goes to the "outside" rail, BLACK goes to the "inside" rail, GREEN goes to the turnout frog.  Power Busses...RED goes to the "outside" rail, Black goes to the "inside" rail. You can use whatever color code you like, but red/black or red/white is what most layout builders use.  Write your code down, and glue a copy of it to the bottom of your layout somewhere.

The cheapest and most secure way to connect feeders to power busses is to simply solder them together.

The quickest way (and not bad electrically) is to use 3M Scotchlok Insulation Displacement Connectors instead of solder.  You can find them on eBay for less than a dime each.

It has been conjectured that because the metal part of the 3M IDC is aluminum and feeders/power busses are copper that some corrosion will inevitably take place.  I have nearly a thousand connections using IDC's and I have never had a problem.  However, I live in a desert climate.  If you are worried about dissimilar metal oxidation happening, then use an oxidation inhibitor on each IDC connection such as Noalox, which you can buy at Lowe's or The Home Depot.

You do not want to get "cheap" wire.  You want low oxygen, high purity wire.  For your little layout, the price difference is not going to be worth it.  Learn good wiring practices early, and use them in all your layout projects.

Lowe's and The Home Depot's wire prices are high.  I buy mine at my local electrical supply house, where I can "talk shop" with somebody who knows what they're doing.  Another place that may have what you're looking for at a fairly good price would be a car stereo install shop.  I have one who sells me wire by the foot at a much better price than Lowe's or THD, and they usually have a fairly good assortment of connectors too...although local prices are always much higher than getting connectors through eBay.

If you decide to create more than one power district, I identify mine using colored electrical tape on the power busses and by sticking a piece very close to my subroadbed (under the benchwork) where the two feeder come through.

I also secure my feeders with gap-filling CA and Accelerator on the underside where they come through the subroadbed so they won't pull off the bottoms of my rails above.  It acts as a "strain relief".

I also string a straight DC power supply line alongside my power busses, which I use to power my Tortoise switch machines and my Digitrax UP5 Loconet panels.  I have a Radio Shack 12V 1.5A power supply wired into this circuit with a 1.5A quick-acting fuse.  I use 14 ga lo-ox speaker Zip-wire for this.  This little power supply powers over 30 Tortoises as well as 9 Digitrax UP5 panels without a hiccup.

Just for your interest, here's the wiring setup on one of the yard modules on my modular layout.  Its specs are different than what I've recommended for you in these ways.  I use 12 ga. Red/Black Speaker zip wire for my main power busses, and I run 14 ga stranded wire for my sub-busses, which all of my 22 ga. solid core feeders are connected to.  I use 3M 905 Red Scotchlok IDC's for my feeder/sub-buss connections and 3M 902 Brown Scotchlok IDC's for my sub-buss to main power buss connections.  My Tortoises have their own circuits using 22 ga wire blue/yellow throughout, with a solid green feeder going from each Tortoise to power the turnout frogs.


I'm sure you'll have other recommendations on this thread.  My way works flawlessly for me, and maybe you'll see something that will assist you in my reply.

reinhardtjh

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Re: Feeder wires
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2012, 04:45:36 AM »
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Nice looking work, Bob.  I copied your text and picture for future reference.

Are those PowerPole connectors on the main bus between sections?

John H. Reinhardt
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peteski

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Re: Feeder wires
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2012, 05:11:40 AM »
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It has been conjectured that because the metal part of the 3M IDC is aluminum and feeders/power busses are copper that some corrosion will inevitably take place.  I have nearly a thousand connections using IDC's and I have never had a problem.  However, I live in a desert climate.  If you are worried about dissimilar metal oxidation happening, then use an oxidation inhibitor on each IDC connection such as Noalox, which you can buy at Lowe's or The Home Depot.

Are you sure about that?  I don't often use Scotchlock IDC suitcase connectors but from what I remember, their metal parts were tin plated copper brass (not aluminum).  I went to 3M website but couldn't find any official indications about the material used in those connectors.  But I don't think it is Al.

EDIT: found the data sheets.  I looked at couple of types and they use tin plated brass for the u-contact. Here is one of those datasheets:
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=TTTTTVv_LdGtMYu7OY0wMy9Tfwvrfdv_IwUTfwUTfTTTTTT--&fn=557DS.PDF
So, no worries about dissimilar metal oxidation.  If you think about it, why would 3M produce connectors destined to fail by having aluminum u-contact in connectors designed for copper wires? :)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 05:23:45 AM by peteski »
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Dave Schneider

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Re: Feeder wires
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2012, 02:53:58 PM »
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Robert,

Thanks for your very straightforward and practical description. I am getting close to this stage myself and will keep this handy for reference.

Best wishes, Dave
If you lend someone $20, and never see that person again, it was probably worth it.

packers#1

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Re: Feeder wires
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2012, 03:36:25 PM »
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Not sure about DCC, as I only run DC, but to answer your question about wires, I use 18 or 22 gauge stranded stereo hook-up wire from Radioshack. What I like most about the straded is how easy it is to drop feeders; strip the end, flatten with pliers, add a bit of flux, hold with some pliers, and use the blob soldering technique to attach to the track; it's worked out great so far for me, and the wires can be hidden with paint and ballasting
Sawyer Berry
Clemson University graduate, c/o 2018
American manufacturing isn’t dead, it’s just gotten high tech

jagged ben

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Re: Feeder wires
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2012, 05:04:53 PM »
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How many blocks are you going to have for DC operation?  This is an important question.

robert3985

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Re: Feeder wires
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2012, 02:13:25 AM »
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Are those PowerPole connectors on the main bus between sections?

John H. Reinhardt

John,

Yup.  I use the Ntrak DCC wiring protocol for all my modular connections on my modular layout.  I figure if you can hook up several hundred modules together and make it work with DCC using Anderson Powerpoles, there must be something good about them.

For your information, I don't solder them, I crimp them using a low-cost crimper I bought at Harbor Freight Tools that appears to be made specifically for crimping these connectors. 

I also color code the connections with the appropriate colored plastic cover for each power district, programming track, and 12VDC...red/black, yellow/black, blue/black, (3 power districts), white/black (12VDC), and white/blue (programming).  I also orient each connector for power districts, 12VDC and programming so that they cannot be interconnected. 

Frankly, the Anderson Powerpoles make setup at the shows and when at home much simpler and fool proof, and, I believe their "wiping" action assures a positive and rugged connection as compared to Cinch-Jones connectors.

As to their application on this thread...OP, I would use them to hook up the initial DC, then when you've purchased your DCC, just unplug the DC and plug in the DCC.  Should work seamlessly for you.

Here's a photo of what powers my previously DC (it's now 100% DCC) home layout, as well as the "club" layout (which is twice the size of my home layout) at shows.


For those of you who may have questions about its components, from left to right you'll see a (1) 12VDC 500mA Power Supply (2) AC-AC Adapter w/15VAC 5A output, (3) Digitrax DCS 100 Command Station, (4) Digitrax PM42 Quad Power Manager, (5) Soundtraxx PTB Programming Track Booster, all mounted on a portable board and connected to the layout via Anderson Powerpoles on 12ga high-quality speaker zip wire.


robert3985

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Re: Feeder wires
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2012, 02:33:26 AM »
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Are you sure about that?  I don't often use Scotchlock IDC suitcase connectors but from what I remember, their metal parts were tin plated copper brass (not aluminum).  I went to 3M website but couldn't find any official indications about the material used in those connectors.  But I don't think it is Al.

EDIT: found the data sheets.  I looked at couple of types and they use tin plated brass for the u-contact. Here is one of those datasheets:
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=TTTTTVv_LdGtMYu7OY0wMy9Tfwvrfdv_IwUTfwUTfTTTTTT--&fn=557DS.PDF
So, no worries about dissimilar metal oxidation.  If you think about it, why would 3M produce connectors destined to fail by having aluminum u-contact in connectors designed for copper wires? :)

Thanks Peteski for your research.

No, I was not "sure" about it at all, but I had a couple of responders to one of my postings a few months ago who swore there would be oxidation problems with 3M IDC's, so I mentioned it as "conjecture" and offered a solution if it was true.

As I mentioned, I have had zero problems with them, and now I feel even more secure in recommending them.

I'm glad you cleared up that spurious rumor and thanks again!

mmyers

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Re: Feeder wires
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2012, 05:44:54 AM »
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I've always used solder after crimping Powerpole contracts with a Harbor Freight crimper. That die and anvil is just a little larger then the correct Ratchet crimper so the wire is not compressed as much.
Simplest way is to place the tip of the soldering iron on the barrel at the blade end. Place the solder at the other end contacting the wire and barrel. As soon as it pulls to the iron, it's done.

Martin Myers