DGLE is in the eye of the beholder

[kelticsylk]

How many flavors of the PRR "standard" paint Dark Green Locomotive Enamel can there possibly be?
On steam engines I think there may only be three major shades...New, Filthy and Really filthy. There are hundreds of transitional colors.

On diesels, it appears to depend on what day of the week it is, what camera you use, the film, the weather, how the planets are aligned, etc. Here are some examples...

According to these"centipede" photos DGLE also comes in brown and olive shades.

Commercial models present even more shades as each manufacturer creates their own interpretation of the color they like to call "brunswick  green". It used to be that almost none of them matched any of the shades we see in photographs of PRR locomotives. In recent years, however, some companies are really trying. Still...
The ER version used on the sharks...

Bachmann's choice...

Trix had a totally different idea back when they made this GG1...

For fun, try a google search on images using "prr diesel" or "brunswick green" and you'll get even more confused.

I have seen DGLE defined as...
One 55 gallon drum of black mixed with one quart of green...One fellow on railroad.net named John writes that "the proper mix was 50 parts black to 1 part dark green".

According to Wikipedia, the source of all true knowledge on the web, "Brunswick green is a common name for green pigments made from copper compounds. It is a deep, dark green, which may vary from intense to very dark, almost black...The color used by the Pennsylvania Railroad for locomotives was often called "Brunswick green", but officially was termed Dark Green Locomotive Enamel (DGLE). This was a shade of green so dark as to be almost black, but which turned greener with age and weathering as the copper compounds further oxidized". How is that for an exact definition!

Ah, what's a modeler to do? We could do a chemical analysis on how much copper oxidizes under what conditions and how that influences the amount of black. Maybe we would need to mathematically calculate the effect the pigment ratio of 1 in 50 affects the spectral appearance of paint. Then again, maybe that might be too much like real work. This IS a hobby if I remember correctly.

I think  trying to recreate the EXACT color may a fools errand, so I tried another tack. On the Allegheny Eastern, I'm going for consistency. I picked what I think might be the correct color (read as "the one I like").  The idea is based on this photo of several PRR units together in 1958...

I'm in the process of repainting all my locomotives using  Polly Scale Brunswick Green F414164 (apparently Testors never got the memo about DGLE). I'm not adding any more green or black or any other color. I'm just using whatever comes out of that bottle. I'm dragging my feet on repainting the ER sharks...They are just so pretty! 

The repainting is easy. I use a brush and the paint is the perfect blend of thinner and pigment. It flows on just right. I get good results with no brush marks or flaws. The hard part for me is decals. Those five stripes are murder to place accurately, but I'll get the hang of it. I just redo it till I get it right.

I'm still wondering why Microscale shows the word Pennsylvania running all the way down the PA unit, but makes the actual decal so short. Maybe I purchased the Z scale decals by mistake?

I've applied the idea to my freight and cabin cars too. I use Poly Scale F414293 Zinc Chrome Primer on all my freight cars...

I believe the cabin cars are all painted with Poly Scale 414352 Light Freight Car Red...

.
The colors might  not be totally correct, but I think they they look right. I think the fact that they will be in uniform use on the layout will create a fair representation of the PRR in 1948-1950.

I've even applied this to the passenger equipment. Right now I'm using Poly Scale PRR Tuscan Red F414167. I am changing this to a lighter color. Some folks suggest Polyscale Boxcar Red  F414281. I'm not sure I like it. Since the Allegheny Eastern currently has little to no passenger equipment I haven't worried about it all that much.

What about  the various shades of all these colors? I believe that weathering the cars and locomotives will take care of this, just as it does in real life. By varying the amount of weathering over a consistent base color, I should get more realistic results.

For the purists out there Keystone Crossings has a chart of what other modelers believe to be the correct colors at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/model/paint.php

Frank Musick

[ljudice]

What ever happened with that can of DGLE that was actually found by someone at a flea market or something a couple of years ago? It was believed to be authentic, but it was a spray can apparently used for touch up and surely towards the end of the PRR's days. 

I never heard what became of that story...

[Philip H]

And what sort of steam loco is that at the top of your post?  Not being a PRR fanatic, I don't recognize it.  But it sure looks HAWT!

[eja]

T-1

[sixpakpop]

 I think the "PENNSYLVANIA" was meant to be stretched out (letter by letter?) to fill that side of the PA. Notice no letter on the side door.

[Bob Bufkin]

There is an old story that a shop worker in Altoona got tired of the same old black and happen tro have a can of green paint which he poured into the black.  Don't know how true this is but the rest is history.

[Dave V]

Sorry, Bob, I don't buy it!

Pennsy was always very military in the way it did things, and such capricious departure from established PRR standard would surely have been squashed...!

[Bob Bufkin]

Dave I read that years ago in a PRR publication and I don't remember which one.  Probably not true cause as you said they were very regemental on the way they did things.  Makes for one of those RR myths or legends.

[kelticsylk]

I think the "PENNSYLVANIA" was meant to be stretched out (letter by letter?) to fill that side of the PA. Notice no letter on the side door.

Great...Instead of one teensy decal that was hard to center I get to cut it into teensier pieces that are even harder...Diabolical!

[kelticsylk]

And what sort of steam loco is that at the top of your post?  Not being a PRR fanatic, I don't recognize it.  But it sure looks HAWT!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_T1

[Brakie]

When I was a brakeman on the PRR I asked the old line engineer if he recalls seeing any clean PRR locomotives?

He Puff twice on his cigar then rolled it from left to right and and spoke around the cigar said "Sonny,this outfit orders their locomotives in three colors dirty,grimy and filthy".

He never crack a smile..

[Nato]

    The old Arnold Rapido GG 1 was much like the Trix HO locomotive shown. Not enough black. While we are on the subject of paint color CP Maroon is another one of those colors. The Micro Trains CP heavyweights are two redish looking,as someone who did get to view CP cars on the West Coast of Canada several times including the BCR Royal Hudson Train.The Wheels-O-Time CP Baggage cars are somewhat better, the best are the Rapido Trains  foob CN cars painted in CP with just the right brownish cast to the color. Con Cor's CP Budd cars look like they have a brown stripe or a DK purple one,the stripe needs to wrap around the end of the dome obs car and run full leingth of the letterboard on Duplex (Slumbercoach) cars. The old North East decals in CP got the color right,but the decals were so thin they fell apart when applyed. Pud has the color down right on his trains,as well he should being a native. Don't even get me started on N&W Tuscan on Con Cor Cars,the red stripe on the Bachmann J loco versus the special run excursion verson Bachmann J.                                                       Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake,Utah.

[dougnelson]

I believe that PRR DGLE probably did not vary much.  What does vary, as shown in the photographs, is the sunlight, late afternoon light, overcast light, various layers of dirt and grime, the variations of 60 year old slide film and the printing and reproduction of 60 year old slides.

[David Leonard]

My understanding is, as the Wikipedia article implies, that the presence of one part of copper based green to fifty parts black was done intentionally so that the black paint would oxidize towards green instead of grey. Newly painted units would appear black and gold (or buff) and only as they weathered and aged would they acquire various shades of green. But oxidation was part of the plan.

As for decals, the former edition of Micoscale decals for Pennsy passenger diesels did require applying the letters separately, but the current printing has the lettering spaced out.

[Iain]

Don't repaint the sharks!