N Scale Insight

[MichaelWinicki]

For MR, their photography standards is no doubt one of their USP's or unique selling propositions. 

Good or bad, they adhere to them, but from a marketing standpoint I think they're making the right decision.

Their page counts are probably more dictated by lack of advertisers than a lack of articles with good photography. 

If they loosened their criteria I don't think it would lend itself to selling more magazines– most likely the reverse would happen.

[MichaelWinicki]

Well, true dat, but I'd rather hear a variety of opinions about aspects of the model I'm concerned about, such as overall quality and reliability, I can tune out the crap that doesn't matter to me.  And when there's conflicting views, it's great to be able to question the poster and get a clearer picture of the situation.  It's also nice to know that none of the opinions are swayed by the presence of advertising dollars...  I mean, has MR ever really told the truth about Bachmann's spotty quality?  And how many products never get reviewed in the magazines?

I agree with the variety of opinions.

That makes for a useful thread.

I agree that MR doesn't label a shabby model a shabby model.  And that's a weakness of their process.

[bbussey]

I'll dispute the product review issue...  I think we get far more information that is far more useful in a far more timely manner via the innerwebs than we will ever get from a mag.  First off, with the pre-order/limited run situation, the magazine isn't getting the model much sooner than we the People are, then they have to go through triage to determine whether it's important enough to include in the 4 pages dedicated to reviews.  By the time the ink splashes on the paper, the model's been on the street for the better part of two months, and if it's a really good one, you can't find one if you had to.

So we can look up just about any product and get some sort of feedback, or we can wait for Dana Kawala (sp?) to tell us how many drawbar ounces he can come up with.

The web wins this category walking away.

I'm jumping into this late, but I can address a couple of the points that Lee has brought up.

Sometimes we Internet-savvy folks forget that the overwhelming majority of the Model Railroad community is not active on the Internet, and therefore does not get see the news and information there.  I can tell you, I still get comments from people regularly who recently have discovered the G26 two years after they were released.  A prominent member of the N scale community approached me in Springfield to say he just recently saw the G26 model for the first time, at one of his local hobby shops.  The first two releases of the XIH boxcars did very well, but there was a final boost to sell out the second run after the model was reviewed in consecutive months in RMC and MR.

Yes, web information is a more efficient method of getting product news out.  And as the percentage of Internet-savvy consumers grows, more manufacturers are establishing interactive and media-themed portals such as website blogs and Facebook and YouTube.  But the large majority of consumers still get their product information via methods introduced in the "dark ages," i.e. the print media.  So the printed product reviews are helpful in getting the word out on a product.  And an N scale column in MR (no matter how basic the subject matter is) and repeated features of Popp's layout (no matter how New Haven centric they are) can only be a positive in regard to N scale.

Yes, we have the Internet as a means of exchanging information and ideas and we may consider the print media to be less than topical.  But if the print media helps bring people into the scale, that isn't a bad thing.

[bbussey]

It's also nice to know that none of the opinions are swayed by the presence of advertising dollars...  I mean, has MR ever really told the truth about Bachmann's spotty quality?  And how many products never get reviewed in the magazines?

Possibly the products that they feel are not up to snuff?  Perhaps that is how they avoid printing a bad review of a product - by not reviewing it.

[MichaelWinicki]

Possibly the products that they feel are not up to snuff?  Perhaps that is how they avoid printing a bad review of a product - by not reviewing it.

We certainly get some bad reviews through the Internet... The trouble is that many render a bad review based upon their automatic dislike of the manufacturer– Even when they've not had the opportunity to see or run the product in person.

[rochsub]

I appreciate MR reviews much more than internet reviews.  While there may be a bit of bias in MR due to advertiser loyalty, it's tiny compared to internet reviews being biased toward those who simply like to complain or have an axe to grind.  I find most reviews on N scale forums to be badly rewritten and not very accurate as to the overall quality of the model.

Daryl

[Denver Road Doug]

And there lays the trap-false limitations of what can be done in  N  to include detailing,operation,switching etc.There are lots of great  N Scale layouts out there...
Why does it have to be large? You don't hear that in HO.In fact there has been several articles and books covering small HO layouts and on the same token very few covering small  N Scale layouts.
I fear we won't see much better from Jim Kelly's column since he will be pushing in the wrong direction of scenery,DCC and limited operation and and IMHO that sure don't ring  N Scales promotional bell..

I agree there are a lot of nice N layouts out there.   The four you mentioned should all have been in MR by now.  AFAIK, only one has.  The one's that haven't are mostly because of the a-b-c requirements. (which probably should include photography under the skills part of c)

Not sure where you got that I'm talking down N as switching/operations/detail oriented.  Quite the contrary.  I happen to operate monthly on a N layout (that has been in MR) that meets all those specs, and I firmly believe all those things are possible, and by the way not uncommon.

Why does it have to be large?   Well, I'm not even sure where to start with that one.
1. First off, it has to be "n-scale large".   So, take an average of the layout area of the published HO layouts in, let's say, the 20th-80th percentile then scale it down to N.   That would be your starting point, adjusting for the human form.
2. While there are exceptions, MR's demographics like sensational model railroads.  That means they're big, generally.  A clever design, or a highly detailed layout, or some other specific "lure" can substitute but generally to make a big splash it needs to be a larger layout.
3. In general, the layout should feature operations.  To accomodate more than 2 or 3 operators requires space considerations for the human form and thus, the layout will have to have a certain size to meet this requirement.
4. "BIG" sells.   Go big or go home.

The "promotional bell".   Well, that's probably worthy of another topic itself, and probably the key reason N hasn't been able to maintain the momentum of the early 2000's.   If you look up in the dictionary "spread too thin", it says "See N-scale Model Railroading".  N-Scale is the epidemy of "splitting the votes".  We have two organizations neither of which are focused on modeling really.  We are basically not accepted in the NMRA.  We have two magazines that probably can't thrive as a result of the other. (at least like they want to I'm guessing)   We have a lot of modular railroaders, in many forms. (N-Trak, T-Trak, et al)   There is no united organization that has in its best interest the promotion of n-scale in it's most basic form.  The proliferation of Internet forums has dilluted further the tendancy for modelers to submit articles and being a lower percentage of the overall hobby to begin with, this hurts n-scale more.  And, MR tries to dedicate a column and n-scalers blow up about it.   So clearly, a ship lost at sea from the promotional standpoint.   We should have a slogan... "Most Bizarre Segment of the World's Greatest Hobby".

[lashedup]

If you look up in the dictionary "spread too thin", it says "See N-scale Model Railroading".  N-Scale is the epidemy of "splitting the votes".  We have two organizations neither of which are focused on modeling really.  We are basically not accepted in the NMRA.  We have two magazines that probably can't thrive as a result of the other. (at least like they want to I'm guessing)   We have a lot of modular railroaders, in many forms. (N-Trak, T-Trak, et al)   There is no united organization that has in its best interest the promotion of n-scale in it's most basic form.  The proliferation of Internet forums has dilluted further the tendancy for modelers to submit articles and being a lower percentage of the overall hobby to begin with, this hurts n-scale more.  And, MR tries to dedicate a column and n-scalers blow up about it.   So clearly, a ship lost at sea from the promotional standpoint.   We should have a slogan... "Most Bizarre Segment of the World's Greatest Hobby".

Na... that goes to the t-scale freaks... (I kid...)

Seriously though, n-scale is a fragmented world. You've got young and old. Home layout and significant modular layouts. LOTS of haphazard modeling and some real diamonds in the rough. 2 magazines separately dedicated to one scale. At least three or four different Internet forums where we see a lot of the same stuff and people. And on and on.

N-scalers tend to be pretty internet savvy versus the typical HO guys. I talk to hobby shop owners all the time that tell me that n-scale guys pre-order sight-unseen a new model(s) without even thinking about it where the HO guys tend to want to hold it in their hand before they buy it. However there is probably an older contingent (I use that term loosely) that isn't hanging around with the asshats on this site that still rely on magazines like MR or their local hobby shop to find out the latest in what's new.

Skibbe and I have been tinkering around with the idea of creating an n-scale resource. It isn't anything overly serious and it would be approached from the standpoint of trying to put in one place a lot of information both to encourage people to consider n-scale and as a place to share new, unique or even basic techniques. Showcasing n-scale modeling is part of it as well, but I wouldn't take the approach of trying to be like MR. The n-scale community would overall benefit from something like that and I've got the resources from my day job to be able to create something that can be around for a long, long time.

- j

[Blazeman]

Column #1 was an intro. Let's see where he goes with it. Also note, there will be six issues that will not have his column. Could there be a thought in Wauwautosa to have someone else fill those months....Dave Popp, or maybe some of the modelers in N that have been featured over the years?

Maybe we can reach out to Jim Kelly and engage him in dialogue (would he be "permitted" to utilize forums outside of the the Kalmabach one?) to give him ideas of what to comment on? Does Kelly attend the big shows? Will he be at Hershey in June? I sure hope he doesn't stay rooted in Wisconsin. I saw Tony Koester last weekend roaming the aisles at Springfield. I'm sure he got many suggestions and questions while doing so. Gotta get out among the folk, regardless of how scary they may be.

Just for fun thought: What would happen if Allen Keller would approach Dave Popp to feature his layout for the video series?

[Hyperion]

N-scalers tend to be pretty internet savvy versus the typical HO guys. I talk to hobby shop owners all the time that tell me that n-scale guys pre-order sight-unseen a new model(s) without even thinking about it where the HO guys tend to want to hold it in their hand before they buy it.

I think this is at least as much related to the "sold out" phenomenon as anything else.  I don't model HO, so I can't say for certain, but from LHS' and eBay there seems to be a lot more readily available stock than there is in N.  You either get our stuff when it comes out or you're out of luck.  I don't much care for pre-ordering, I'd rather wait and get it off the 'bay for another 10-20% off, but there's no guarantee it'll hit there.  So if I really want something, I've got to preorder it.

[Brakie]

DRD:Not sure where you got that I'm talking down N as switching/operations/detail oriented.  Quite the contrary. 
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Well that was suppose to be in general speak and aim toward no one.Sorry it was misinterpreted..

[Denver Road Doug]

DRD:Not sure where you got that I'm talking down N as switching/operations/detail oriented.  Quite the contrary. 
-------------------------------
Well that was suppose to be in general speak and aim toward no one.Sorry it was misinterpreted..

Oh, OK.  No prob.   

[SebastianLee]

Na... that goes to the t-scale freaks... (I kid...)

Skibbe and I have been tinkering around with the idea of creating an n-scale resource. It isn't anything overly serious and it would be approached from the standpoint of trying to put in one place a lot of information both to encourage people to consider n-scale and as a place to share new, unique or even basic techniques. Showcasing n-scale modeling is part of it as well, but I wouldn't take the approach of trying to be like MR. The n-scale community would overall benefit from something like that and I've got the resources from my day job to be able to create something that can be around for a long, long time.

- j

I've always thought something along the lines of wikiversity would be a boon for all modelers.

[MichaelT]

Well after all the chatter about the new article, I stopped by my LHS and picked up a copy of the latest MR, to see what all the brew ha ha is about. Will go through it here in a bit when I sit down to read for awhile.