Simple ESU Question Lokpilot + Loksound compatibility

[u18b]

Installing sound in an E unit pair.

In N scale, I don't feel I need sound in the B unit also.
So I put a Loksound Micro in the A unit.

And I just want to install a Lokpilot micro in the B unit.

Then, I want to program them the same (or consist).

Here is my simple question:  do Loksound and Lokpilot run the same?

In other words, will one run a loco slower than the other.

Anybody have experience with this setup?

[peteski]

Yes, they should work well together, especially if they are from the same series (like all V4 or all 5).  As for the speed matching that can be done fairly close even with different brand decoders by programming the speed table. Either the 3-point (CV2, 5, and 6) or the full 28-step table.  And assuming that you are using it, you also have to match the momentum CVs on those decoders (CV3 and4).

I'm assuming that this is for steam locos.  For diesels there are other things (like a startup delay) that has to be considered.

[u18b]

This is for a diesel set.
E1 A&B
AT&SF

The only non-sound variables I modded were the vmin/mid/max.

I know if I install a Digtrax they could be speed matched.
But it would be so much better if I could input the same values for Vmin/mid/max and the locos run the same.  Done.
(BTW- they already run well together in analog).

[mu26aeh]

I have my 2 CF7's MU'd with a similar set up.  I have them both addressed the same number.  I do have to go back and change some settings to better speed match them but they run good together as is

[peteski]

This is for a diesel set.
E1 A&B
AT&SF

The only non-sound variables I modded were the vmin/mid/max.

I know if I install a Digtrax they could be speed matched.
But it would be so much better if I could input the same values for Vmin/mid/max and the locos run the same.  Done.
(BTW- they already run well together in analog).

I guess with the Shay projects you've been doing I thought it would be a steam loco.  But to answer your question, using the same CV2, 5, and 6 values on a LokSound and equivalent LokPilot decoder should work, but every loco (even identical models) can be slightly different. But then again how much perfection is expected?

[tehachapifan]

There will also be a "sound start delay" that you will either need to program out of the sound unit or into the non-sound unit so that they begin moving at the same time. Non-sound ESU decoders began having this programming feature with their V4.0 series.

[peteski]

There will also be a "sound start delay" that you will either need to program out of the sound unit or into the non-sound unit so that they begin moving at the same time. Non-sound ESU decoders began having this programming feature with their V4.0 series.

Rigth. When the diesel motor sound is "starting"  the loco will not move (even with the throttle knob cranked up) until the startup is completed, and the engine sound is at idle.

[bbussey]

I did that with Rapido FL9 pairs, LokSound in the lead unit and LokPilot in the trailing unit.  The two controllers work perfectly together.

[samusi01]

The two controllers work perfectly together.

This.

As has been mentioned, you may need to tweak starting delay... but aside from that, they consist beautifully. I typically run sets of four SP/SSW GP60s, as did the prototype, with one of the set having a LokSound and the remainder having LokPilots, without issues. If you use their speed curve for speed matching, it works very well. I have a standard curve and all I do is input it and set the top speed - voila, it's matched all up and down the curve. I do like ESU.

[u18b]

There will also be a "sound start delay" that you will either need to program out of the sound unit or into the non-sound unit so that they begin moving at the same time. Non-sound ESU decoders began having this programming feature with their V4.0 series.

Bingo!  I hadn't thought of that.

And I guess the sound has some momentum built in.

[Cajonpassfan]

The motor delay is actually a very nice feature; the prime mover revs up before the loco starts moving. I have several ABA sets with Lokpilots in the A's and Loksound in the B's, and they work very well together. Assuming they are the same brand units that run well together, they can be addressed the same and programmed to the same values for speed and motor delay.
Otto

[u18b]

The motor delay is actually a very nice feature; the prime mover revs up before the loco starts moving. I have several ABA sets with Lokpilots in the A's and Loksound in the B's, and they work very well together. Assuming they are the same brand units that run well together, they can be addressed the same and programmed to the same values for speed and motor delay.
Otto

Any tips on how to program it?
I have a LokProgrammer.   I obtained a LokPilot today and will be installing it.

Can I open a sound project and then copy the DCC to the LokPilot?

How do I know which CVs  to change and with what values.

Any help appreciated.

[bbussey]

Any tips on how to program it?
I have a LokProgrammer.   I obtained a LokPilot today and will be installing it.

Can I open a sound project and then copy the DCC to the LokPilot?

How do I know which CVs  to change and with what values.

Any help appreciated.

https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/p/290924/3382913.aspx

Assign "Virtual Sound" to F8 in the Lokpilot decoder, then match the startup delay to that in the LokSound decoder and match all the other relevant CVs.

I could swear that it's possible to automatically set that in LokProgrammer.  I don't recall jumping through hoops to configure the LokPilot in the trailing unit of my Rapido FL9 pair.  I remember having a major difficult time matching with the DigiTrax non-sound decoder that Rapido supplied, and had no trouble after swapping in a LokPilot decoder.

[skytop35]

You might also want to make sure momentum is the same in both decoders. CV3 and CV4. I just installed two LokSounds and a LokPilot in an A-B-A set for a customer and the LokPilot had different momentum settings. Switching Mode was mapped to F3 and Acceleration to F4 in the LokPilot so those need to be moved or removed as well.

[squirrelhunter]

I think all the advice in this thread is good- it has held true for the ESU V4 decoders in my Atlas and IM EMD's. I was easily able to get them to sync up nicely between the sound and non sound units.

I'll make a bit of a counter point from experience (which is probably mostly my own not-being-good-at-programming) but I had a pair of ScaleTrains C44-9W's, both V5, one Loksound, one Lokpilot and I was never really able to get them to run right together.

The sound C44-9W has a wonky staring delay (even after startup) where if you opened the throttle, the prime mover sound would notch down, then notch up and start moving. I timed with a stopwatch and it was 5.5 second delay.

I tried turning the virtual sound on in the non sound unit, made sure the speed curves matched, adjusted the startup delay on both units, turned off the delay on the sound unit, even tweaked the momentum for the non sound unit. Best I got was about a half second difference in staring between the units when I opened the throttle.