Southern Pacific SJ Daylight P-10 4-6-2 build n scale

[Spacecraftcreator]

Greeting all...

I'm a new member here but not new to modeling. I am looking to build a San Joaquin Daylight P-10 Pacific with Train 53 consist. I am thinking to be starting with a Model Power chassis and adding the boiler cab shell and Vandy tender. Has anyone seen such a part or would I be better off converting a Model Power Locomotive? I have even read about Kato GS-4 modifications to a 4-6-2 being done though I have not seen a published article on how to do so yet. Suggestions and ideas are most appreciated.

Thanks,

Bob

Portland OR 97229
Home of the 4449

[johnb]

Greeting all...

I'm a new member here but not new to modeling. I am looking to build a San Joaquin Daylight P-10 Pacific with Train 53 consist. I am thinking to be starting with a Model Power chassis and adding the boiler cab shell and Vandy tender. Has anyone seen such a part or would I be better off converting a Model Power Locomotive? I have even read about Kato GS-4 modifications to a 4-6-2 being done though I have not seen a published article on how to do so yet. Suggestions and ideas are most appreciated.

Thanks,

Bob

Portland OR 97229
Home of the 4449

Kato has a closer Japanese Pacific....the shell is going to be a pain

[randgust]

Well, the place to start - and it can be a real challenge - is to locate drawings and/or a clearance diagram of the locomotive.  I'm not an SP fan, but usually you can find something...somewhere...in books or resources.

That starts giving you some dimensions to check against.   Things you can't easily change are driver size and spacing, then boiler size.

It 'looks like' other modelers have done these from a USRA heavy Pacific.   See

https://sscale.org/2013/07/

https://sscale.org/wp-content/gallery/tssjv2n4/cache/SP-Pacific-11.jpg-nggid03204-ngg0dyn-0x0x100-00f0w010c010r110f110r010t010.jpg

If the driver sizes and spacing work out, that's as good a place as any to start.

I'd then look at the Spookshow pictures and ratings and see what looks like you want to search for.  You can ask for help here on model measurements, mechanism issues, etc.   I don't know if there is really an 'excellent' 4-6-2 out there, you have nice body and iffy mechanisms, and iffy bodies and bulletproof old school mechanisms, plastic and cast boilers, etc.   I wouldn't automatically go the Model Power route without more study there.

EDIT:  added link to Mark's site for the MP mechanism shots:  http://www.spookshow.net/loco/mp462.html

There comes a point on working on boiler and details where you'd be better off just starting over with brass tube.  Don't be afraid of that, it can be easier to add new stuff to a clean tube then trying to grind off detail well from a plastic or cast metal boiler.

While trying to find steam details in N can be tricky, check out Republic Locomotive Works, as Marshall has a lot of the really excellent GHQ parts and appliances that used to be in their conversion kits, as well as a lot of the old school castings.  Those also show up on auction sites.  Bachmann has a pretty good online listing of oddball steam parts as well as Kato, hit and miss there but check it out.   And now, everybody and their brother is drawing stuff up on Shapeways.  The discouraging part there is just finding anything as their search system is the absolute worst.

Anyway, this is the group here that's done that kind of thing.

[nickelplate759]

I don't think the Model Power / MRC Pacific is going to be a great starting point.  The drive is good, but the boiler is a big metal casting that also holds some of the drive - so you can't easily throw it away and replace it with something else  (although I do believe some folks have accomplished this).   If a USRA Pacific is a good starting point, the only other choice is the old Rivarossi (sold by Atlas and Con-Cor as well) model.  It came in both USRA Heavy and USRA Light variants, but the mechanism is exactly the same either way.     Besides a Japanese prototype, you might check the Bachmann K4s for suitability (I don't have one to look at).      If Broadway Limited ever does a USRA Pacific in N scale (they did it in HO already) that would be worth a look - their Mikado is terrific.

Oh - it's nice to see another Portlander here!

[SkipGear]

The model power mechanism is very good but yes, it is very close to a scratch build to do anything different with the boiler.

[Cajonpassfan]

Nice job, Tony, elegant chassis!
If one could just acquire the chassis, or a cheap junker, throw away the cryptonite boiler which is just about impossible to work on, and the tender, and build a new shell, that might be a way to go...close to scratchbuilding. Personally, I wouldn’t bother putting a lot of effort to do a build on an old Rivarossi pacific..it’s just not up to par today.
Bob, I wonder if the Bachmann K4 chassis would be a good start. I know the prototype K4’s had 80” drivers, but their driver spacing was only 6’-11”” vs. the P-10 6’8” (?) and I believe the model driver size is quite a bit undersized. Anyone have a caliper? And it comes with a Delta trailing truck...of sorts.
Cutting down GS 4 is not an option...wrong driver type.
Fun stuff,
Otto K.

[JMaurer1]

Somewhere I have one of these engines that I bashed myself. As I recall, I used the MP pacific but don't remember if I swapped out the Riv. plastic shell. I do know that I got some skyline casings from ConCor who first made a GS-4 (and offered it in a ton of stupid fictitious roads...a Pennsy GS-4?!!). The casing was a separate part however (making it possible to also model SP 4-8-2 mountains also with the 'smokelifter'). Tender is two MP vandy tenders to get the proper length. Been trying to organize my trains but I haven't found the box that either of these locomotives are in. I'll try to see if I can find them or some photos later today, but it is possible to do although I think the skyline casing a bit too big and the drivers are too small (?)...there was something that at the time was a 'close enough' thing but I don't recall what.

[SkipGear]

The motor is mounted in the die cast boiler in the Model Power loco's. If you do anything other than use the stock boiler you have to create a motor mount. You can grind down the stock boiler and use it as a mount and weight but for me it was easier to create a motor mount.

[Spacecraftcreator]

Hello everyone and thank you all for your input. I have been quiet here since posting because I've been busy researching and looking into this project more deeply of creating the San Joaquin train. Good news is that I have obtained a 4-6-2 Heavy Pacific with a Vandy Tender. The locomotive appears to be accurate for the basic design with just adding the streamlining to the boiler, the skirts and possible cab modification to SP spec. On the tender it's just converting it from coal load to oil.. And of course the Daylight paint with SP markings. For reference works I have both Wright's and Church's books the engine and train....
Thoughts on this anyone ?
Bob

[Spacecraftcreator]

I have been doing some thinking on this project. It started because I came across a beautiful Model Power 4-6-2 with a Vandy Tender which in more ways than not is an SP loco. The 4 things it would require are :

1) A skyline streamline casing for the boiler
2) A SP styled cab
3) Side Skirting
4) Oil tank "insert" to convert coal to oil

No real mods to the boiler are required so no worry with the metal construction or how to fit a full body shell onto the chassis I think. What are your thoughts on this ?

Bob

[nickelplate759]

One thought on the electro-mechanical side of things.  Tender electrical pickup on these is so-so.   It's better on the newer (MRC branded) runs, but still not nearly as good as Kato or Bachmann.  Since you want the Vandy tender, replacing the entire tender won't work out.  If you are going to install DCC, consider including come kind of Keep-Alive (capacitors), which you would have to fit in the tender along with the decoder.   If you are keeping this straight DC, consider swapping out the trucks for something that will let you work up 8-wheel pickup on the tender.

[Spacecraftcreator]

Thanks, George...... since my GS-4 is already set for DCC, the P-10 and others will be also. This layout is in its infancy stage so no problem.

[JMaurer1]

I do know that I stretched the MP tender by combining two of them and changed the 4 axle trucks for 6 axle trucks (once again, not sure what brand) which had a better pick up system. I need to find the model, but it seems to be hiding rather well but I'm still looking.