ESU micro select direct 73100 in an Atlas SD60

[Steveruger45]

Conrad, yes the sd60E is different, but I wasn’t suggesting that loco.
The new release SD60 like this one, that’s what I’m suggesting for the frames.  https://midwestmodelrr.com/product/atl40003982/
I still can’t find the parts diagrams for it though.
Found the parts list now though.
The frame part you mentioned appears the same as the older part number just with a 9 in front of the old part number, and the rather small picture Of the frame on the Atlas parts site looks just like the old frame too. So not with hollowed out tank for a speaker etc.
So that is what makes me think there is a different frame for the sd50/60 “silver” and “gold” locos released in2019.   Maybe the sd60E frame is what they used on the new sd50/60/60M.
Oh well,

[EL3632]

EL3632,  Thanks for the info.  I'm not actually looking to put old shells on new locos.  Rather, I hope to replace my older DCC decoders with sound decoders.

Steve, the new SD60"E" may not have compatible frames.  Although these frames are made for the ESU board they also have the new (to me) Atlas wired truck connection and the plastic clip to hold the frames together.  In addition, all the regular parts; saddles, trucks, universals, etc. have different part numbers.  Again, compatibility could be an issue.  Someone will have to buy a 60E and compare it to his/her old 60 or 60M.   If it's a match, for less than $10, you can do a conversion without FILING.

Here's what I've found on the Atlas site:

The EMD 60E is not listed on the parts page.

Atlas SD60 and SD60M frame halves (p/n 9490101 & 2) are $4.05ea.

The parts diagram for the EMD SD60E (with DCC and DCC/sound board) has frame nos. AF9817-M81 & 2.   

The electrical pin part number is A-4F9645-M101.

Conrad

I tried the 60 or 60M on a 60E mech before I sold mine, they did not fit, I think the 60E mechanism is too long. It would definitely require heavy frame modification, however don't think it is fixable with milling, would possibly need to remove the plastic piece holding the frame halves together in order to make it fit. As mentioned, I sold my SD60E, so I am unsure exactly of what the fit was and cannot test it.

[EL3632]

Conrad, yes the sd60E is different, but I wasn’t suggesting that loco.
The new release SD60 like this one, that’s what I’m suggesting for the frames.  https://midwestmodelrr.com/product/atl40003982/
I still can’t find the parts diagrams for it though.
Found the parts list now though.
The frame part you mentioned appears the same as the older part number just with a 9 in front of the old part number, and the rather small picture Of the frame on the Atlas parts site looks just like the old frame too. So not with hollowed out tank for a speaker etc.
So that is what makes me think there is a different frame for the sd50/60 “silver” and “gold” locos released in2019.   Maybe the sd60E frame is what they used on the new sd50/60/60M.
Oh well,

No, the frame for the 60E is a completely new frame. The SD60 pre-sound shell on the retooled SD50/60 sound mechanism fits like a glove, the 60 to 60E does not fit. The mechanism is too long for the 60E, I want to say. I sold mine, but tried that conversion first before I sold.

[Steveruger45]

No, the frame for the 60E is a completely new frame. The SD60 pre-sound shell on the retooled SD50/60 sound mechanism fits like a glove, the 60 to 60E does not fit. The mechanism is too long for the 60E, I want to say. I sold mine, but tried that conversion first before I sold.

Good, as I thought. So what are the part numbers for the new sound ready sd50/60 frames?
I dont see those listed.
If you can get these from Atlas you could do an older framed loco sound install by just changing the frame as long as the rest of the motor/drive line etc was the same.

[conrad]

Another take on Steve Ruger’s Atlas SD60 install.

I haven’t done this yet but here's an idea.

Since I don’t have a mill and filing is, well, filing, I used a small hand saw to remove frame material over the rear flywheel.  I have a jeweler’s saw but can’t find the blades.  This was easy as the rear power slots acted as a guide.  I first made vertical cuts right near the rear motor cage then sawed horizontally from the power slots forward.   Finished up with some filing.  While deburring and cleaning it occurred to me that, using the saw, I could modify the front power slots and not have to remove a lot of metal.

This photo shows the plan.  Black marker is material to be removed.  The front of the front power slots will be removed and the slots lengthened.  The nubs just inboard of the motor cage’s rear will be shaved to allow the decoder to fit.  The decoder is 5.75mm wide right where the speaker pads are vs. 4.98mm for the “skinny” part.  The previously sawed/filed rear shelf will be lowered to clear components on the underside of the 73100.



This photo shows the decoder and frame.  Note, compared to Steve’s install, the decoder sits forward about 6mm.  Room for more speaker enclosure and caps. 



Photo with paper decoder showing Steve's decoder location



Downsides of this idea:

Unreliable electrical contact at the front slots.  Maybe cured with solder on the 73100 pads.  Or drill and tap frame.

Scary clearance on the underside of the pc board.  Lots of Kapton and liquid electrical tape.

Upside:

Front of motor cage area is untouched, a stronger frame.

It’s “reversible”.  If it doesn’t work I’ll just saw/file rearward over the front flywheel and install the decoder per Steve’s method.

Comments are solicited.   NO, not that kind of solicitation.

Conrad

[conrad]

Retrenchment

The nubs just inboard of the motor cage’s rear will be shaved to allow the decoder to fit.  The decoder is 5.75mm wide right where the speaker pads are vs. 4.98mm for the “skinny” part.

Turns out filing the nubs near the decoder's speaker pads is not a good idea.  I strarted then noticed I could open the frame at the motor cage.  Steveruger45's decoder location is the correct one.

Conrad

[conrad]

A successful install, my second.  The photos say it all.

This is the mid-install shot.  I placed the speaker cone out to have the wires run inside the enclosure.  I used the same ShapeWays box and CUI speaker as in my GP40-2.



This is the finished frame, decoder and speaker.  All possible contact surfaces, including the speaker area are covered with Kapton tape.  No rear light nor caps yet.  The rear smd Led doesn’t hack it.



Here’s the finished product.  Runs very well and sounds great. 



I'm still thinking about caps and smd LED's for the two locos I've done so far.

Conrad

[RBrodzinsky]

Is there a reason you installed the speaker facing down towards the frame instead of up, as the enclosure is designed for?

[wazzou]

Yeah, I thought that enclosure may have been upside down.  That should be an easy fix.

[conrad]

Is there a reason you installed the speaker facing down towards the frame instead of up, as the enclosure is designed for?

Yeah, I thought that enclosure may have been upside down.  That should be an easy fix.

Yes, as I remember, right side up, the enclosure just clips the back of the decoder.  I wasn't sure if raising the decoder slightly would
interfere with the shell.

When I put the shell on I was so surprised that there was no interference with the rear light lens that I just left well enough alone.
My experience with cutting up the rear lens of my GP40-2 made me gun shy.

When I get around to installing a rear smd LED I'll check out inverting the speaker.

I'm sure it makes some volume difference.  My GP40-2 master volume is set to 80, this SD60M is set to 130.  Both well below the 180 or so max.
They both sound similar to me.  Remember, through my ordering screwup, I ended up with a larger speaker and enclosure than originally planned.

Conrad

[conrad]

This is the completion of my SD-60M install.

Unlike my GP40-2 I was able to use the tiny SBS4DCC’s pre-wired 0402 SMD LED for the rear light.  The 220uf caps easily fit into the headlight shield.  I could have installed more but didn’t see a need and I only have two left for the SD60.



Here’s a front end shot.  Blue wire (+12.9v) goes all the way back to the +UB pad on the bottom of the decoder.  I did this because getting to the +12 on the top of the board was too tricky for me.  Green wire to the common at the onboard caps.  I slid some heat shrink over the LED but still get a little light bleed into the cab.



This is a shot of the rear LED.  They are really delicate. This is actually my second attempt.  Although pre-wired,  I somehow broke off the wire at the LED anode while soldering the leads to the decoder.  Must have caught on something.  I did not change the speaker to “upright”.  The volume is more than adequate as it is.



A shoutout to TRW

Conrad