Pennsylvania RR Imitation Gold

[Teditor]

I have this information regarding Pennsylvania Imitation Gold for Passenger car lettering (munsell number 1.56Y 7.24/5.68
Pullman Paint #600-9 Dupont Color 54292)

Does anyone have the RGB or CMYK values to match please.

Ted (Teditor) Freeman
From the Land Down Under.

[bbussey]

Amazingly it’s the same formula as one of the automotive colors from the 1960s, which you can still get, but I don’t remember which (Ford yellow #5?). I have a touch-up bottle that I bought a couple of years ago. I will look later tonight and advise.

Of note also - you have the DuPont formula#. You can get a paint sample from them, albeit a can-full and not a tiny jar-full. I know this from when I was researching the what the true red and blue colors were for the State of Maine scheme, and DuPont was willing to blow the dust off the half-century-old formulas and sell me a can of each.

[peteski]

Good info, but the question was: RGB or CMYK values to match that paint color. 

I'm not sure for what purpose that info is needed, but in my experience matching physical paint color to something displayed on the computer screen, or printed on a computer printer is not something that is very successful.

[Teditor]

Good info, but the question was: RGB or CMYK values to match that paint color. 

I'm not sure for what purpose that info is needed, but in my experience matching physical paint color to something displayed on the computer screen, or printed on a computer printer is not something that is very successful.

Peteski,
It's for doing ALPS Decals, looking to get close for N Scale Passenger Cars.
Ted (Teditor) Freeman
From the Land Down Under

[bbussey]

Good info, but the question was: RGB or CMYK values to match that paint color. 

True, but he can’t match RGB settings if he doesn’t have something to match them to. 😎

It’s unlikely that it can be matched on an Alps though.

[peteski]

Peteski,
It's for doing ALPS Decals, looking to get close for N Scale Passenger Cars.
Ted (Teditor) Freeman
From the Land Down Under

Ted,
First of all, printing a good approximation of a color (on Alps printer) based on RGB or CYMK values is IMO futile.  Then there are the unacceptable (again IMO) Alps halftones if you just print it using the CYMK method.  Your imitation gold will be composed of bunch of colored stripes. Colors such as this is best done using multiple passes of spot colors.

I have printed imitation gold in the past, but (as with any multi-pass spot color printing), your printer might not be able to do it without some  ink peeling.  I'll have to look at my notes for the printing formula.

[bbussey]

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[peteski]

That is a metallic paint - I thought that imitation gold was a plain (nonmetallic) paint.  At least that is how Microscale Decals are printed, and Boston&Maine imitation (or Dulux) gold for example is also a non-metallic paint.
Also all the model RR colors called "imitation gold" are non-metallic.

[dougnelson]

Ted- you did not mention what years you are modeling and what type of passenger cars. “Imitation Gold” is not a PRR color. It is a color used by the Pullman Company for lettering starting in 1953. Prior to 1953 Pullman used gold leaf except between 1938 and 1948 when they used gold paint. The PRR used gold leaf until 1952 when “Dulux Gold” paint was used. You may already know that Dulux Gold was not a metallic paint, but a shade of slightly darkened yellow paint (probably with a small amount of black added).

Microscale’s updated PRR passenger car Dulux decals look quite good to me. They also have gold leaf decals which are acceptable, however they are a bit grainy compared to the ALPS gold foil decals.

I myself looked to convert the Munsell numbers to CMYK, without success due in part to Munsell’s proprietary status. The PRRT&HS paint committee has paint formulas for PRR paint, but they have not published this information due in part to the difficulty of converting paint color to ink color.

[CodyO]

Ted- you did not mention what years you are modeling and what type of passenger cars. “Imitation Gold” is not a PRR color. It is a color used by the Pullman Company for lettering starting in 1953. Prior to 1953 Pullman used gold leaf except between 1938 and 1948 when they used gold paint. The PRR used gold leaf until 1952 when “Dulux Gold” paint was used. You may already know that Dulux Gold was not a metallic paint, but a shade of slightly darkened yellow paint (probably with a small amount of black added)

Doug,
Dulux gold is what he is aiming for.
Postwar pullman sleepers and coaches in the 1954 timeframe.

But writing this also made me realize since most of the postwar fleet was ordered in 46, would they have been repainted in dulux gold in 54 or still be in gold leaf?

[peteski]

Doug,
Dulux gold is what he is aiming for.

In that case my comment about Alps printer applies.
I dug up my Dulux Gold formulas, and here are some spot color combinations I tried:

Print 2 layers of Standard White ink over a layer of Kodak First Check Metallic Gold.
Another formula is a layer of Opaque White (relabeled as met. gold) over a layer of Metallic Gold.
Yet another formula is a layer (or couple of layers) of Opaque White (relabeled as met. gold) over Yellow, over Metallic Gold.
I also recently bought a set of Elephant Rocket cartridges (their special spot colors).

And finally, almost perfect match for the color Microscale uses for their PRR Dulux Gold lettering is Yellow, over Opaque White (relabeled as met. silver), over Metallic Magenta.

Of course, as it is always the case with Alps, not all the printers will be capable of printing these colors (due to the ink adherence issues).

EDIT:
Since this discussion also mentions  metallics (like gold leaf), I just want to be clear that the above printing formulas, even thought they use metallic inks for for the base color, the other inks overprinting that metallic clor result in a color which is non-metallic.

Of course, like Doug mentioned, true gold leaf can be represented by simply using Alps Metallic Gold ink (IMO Alps Gold Foil ink is too shiny).

[dougnelson]

Doug,
Dulux gold is what he is aiming for.
Postwar pullman sleepers and coaches in the 1954 timeframe.

But writing this also made me realize since most of the postwar fleet was ordered in 46, would they have been repainted in dulux gold in 54 or still be in gold leaf?

Cody: I would guess that by 1954 most passenger cars would have been repainted with dulux, although there could always be a few older cars in gold lettering.  But remember, dulux was not a metalic paint.

[Teditor]

I appreciate everyone's input, I am sending a selection of colours to the modeller who I am doing these for and see how we go.
Ted (Teditor) Freeman
From the Land Down Under

[ncbqguy]

I am not an expert on PRR but on all the artwork I've done for PRR Steam, Diesel & Electric I've not used any reference to "Imitation Gold".   As I understand it, when the color of lettering and stripes went from Gold Leaf the PRR called the color "Synthetic Buff".   I've always called it to be matched to the color of the same name in the PRRTHS Drift Cards which the Importer and Factory had full sets.   For what it is worth, the artwork has represented that color as C13 M38 Y100 K0  or R223 G164 B56.  To my eye the color is a little more "buttery" than Dulux Gold and Badger used to offer several different shades of "Imitation Gold" which varied in its goldieness….
Charlie Vlk
Railroad Model Resources