Product recommendation - Copper Ore Hopper/Gondola

[CRL]

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I’d be in the market for 2-4 dozen of these in n-scale.

[nkalanaga]

I've noticed it with modern coal cars as well:  Why do they put slope sheets in rotary-dump gondolas?  Why not just a square tub, which would allow a slightly shorter car, and much simpler construction?

[cv_acr]

Yeah, that's an interesting design.

Gondola. Not a hopper. Solid bottom, no dumping bays.

[wcfn100]

Gondola. Not a hopper. Solid bottom, no dumping bays.

Gondolas don't have to have solid bottoms e.g. drop bottom gondolas.  Gondolas are defined as having a 'level' bottom.

Jason

[nkalanaga]

And then there's the GN 72000-72499 "series", not all identical.  They were "hopper-bottom gondolas", basically a gon with longitudinal "ballast car" hoppers.  They were class HK, just like the more common ballast hoppers, but looked like common gondolas above the floor.

So, today's coal gons look like hoppers, but have solid bottoms.  The "tub" designs don't even have "level" floors, just solid.  Years ago, they had actual hoppers that looked like gons.  Weird...

I wonder if the real difference is that "hoppers" are designed to be self-clearing, while most bottom-dump gons required at least some shoveling to clear the corners, or over the center sill?

[cv_acr]

Gondolas don't have to have solid bottoms e.g. drop bottom gondolas.  Gondolas are defined as having a 'level' bottom.

Jason

Yes, but a hopper *must* have "self-clearing" bottom outlets, so if it does have a solid bottom it definitionally cannot be a hopper.

[CRL]

...and down the rabbit hole we go! 

[nscalbitz]

Gondolas don't have to have solid bottoms e.g. drop bottom gondolas.  Gondolas are ...
Jason

Err yeah, that's just not true in any way.
The first gons were largely (and remained in Narrow gauge) a set of walls placed on a flat car..
FWIW,

[wcfn100]

Err yeah, that's just not true in any way.
The first gons were largely (and remained in Narrow gauge) a set of walls placed on a flat car..
FWIW,

Right, a level bottom, that's what defines a gondola.  Not sure what you're disagreeing with.

I was just pointing out that having a 'solid' bottom had nothing to with being a gondola.  I see now it was meant to be read as a 'solid' bottom meant it could not be a hopper.


Jason

[Missaberoad]

It's a good thing the AAR doesn't define gondolas but defines several varieties of them...

http://nakina.net/other/aartype.html#Gondola

 

[nkalanaga]

The way I heard it defined, years ago, is that a "hopper" is self-clearing.  Open the doors, the load falls out, you're done.

A "hopper-bottom gondola". on the other hand, has at least some flat areas, such as over the trucks, or over the center sill, which will not empty on their own.  These have to be shoveled into the hoppers, or otherwise cleared.  It also doesn't have a flat floor, because there is no floor over the hoppers.

A "bottom-dump", or "GS", gondola has a flat floor, when the doors are closed.  It is not self-clearing, but can be used as a standard gondola, where the "hopper-bottom" cars are less useful.

Then there were "convertible hopper-bottom gondolas", which had hoppers between the trucks, and removable slope sheets.  With them installed, it was basically a hopper, although usually with a flat top on the center sill.  Remove them, and long loads could bridge the hoppers, making it usable as a gon.  On some, the slope sheets could be used to cover the hoppers, giving a continuous flat floor.  This style seems to have gone out of style in the very early 20th century.

[Philip H]

Anyone know if there are drawings of this car? Looks like it would be a moderately easy 3D print and then you could cast it in resin (says the guy who does neither)