sound installation question

[6axlepwr]

Today I am going to pick up a few Kato SD40-2's. I would really like to try to install sound. I have done sound instsllation in HO. Of course the size makes it easy.

Is it possible to put everything under the hood? Or would it be best to put the speaker in the fuel tank and the board under the hood?

Next, who makes the best sound decoders for N-Scale?

Brian

[jdcolombo]

Hi Brian.

I'd suggest you look at some of my sound installation posts here on Railwire.  I've done them in Atlas RS-11's, GP7's/9's, SD9's, and a FVM GEVO (though admittedly not a Kato SD40-2).  My RS-11 Tutorial thread here on Railwire will give you a good idea of what is possible and the work involved:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=31391.msg347426#msg347426

From my perspective, the state of the art for N-scale diesel sound is using the ESU LokSound Select Micro with the appropriate sound file for the SD40 (probably the EMD 645?).  Then pair this with a Knowles Fox speaker in an enclosure made from .020 styrene (note that the Fox is going out of production as of 1/1/2014; if you want some, you'd better buy them now - available from Digikey).  My tutorial on how do to a speaker enclosure is also available here on Railwire:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=31311.msg346232#msg346232

I have posted several videos of my diesel sound installations using ESU LokSound decoders on YouTube.  Here are a few links:

(FVM GEVO)

(Atlas RS-11)

(Atlas GP7)

There are admittedly easier ways to get sound in an N-scale diesel; MRC, for example, makes a line of drop-in decoders for many diesels.  I tried one and hated it - the motor control was terrible and the sound wasn't all that great, either.  It really depends on what you want - if you really want state-of-the-art, I think ESU LokSound is the way to go, but it will take some work.

John C.

[drgw0579]

Definitely review all of John C's posts.  Model Railroad Hobbyist had offered a video on putting sound in HO Kato NW-2 which has some good tips.  While it was an HO unit, at least it is designed a lot like N scale locomotives.

I am finishing up a Kato U30C installation, which should be very close to a SD40-2.  But without a high short hood to place the speaker, I cut an opening in the fuel tank area to place a Knowles-Fox speaker.  A milling machine is in my future, but for now, frame cutting is done with a motor tool.

The ESU Loksound Select decoder is what I am standardizing on; before its availability, I had used a SoundTraxx  micro-Tsunami in de-motored units, but it is so much nicer to be able to put everything in one unit.

I'll have to figure out how to post photos.

Bill Kepner

[jdcolombo]

I just looked at the Kato SD-40-2 chassis on Spookshow's database, and here is how I would probably try to do this:

Put the ESU Loksound at the REAR, not the front.  Probably will need to mill off a bit of the frame so that it can sit at an even angle, but probably not much.

For the speaker, two options.  Either mill out the fuel tank like Bill Kepner did, or another option would be to cut down the area in the front, so that the speaker fires up into the cab area.  You'd have to measure, but it looks to me like there would be 17mm of space between the motor cradle mounts at the front of the frame and the end of the black divider that seals off the LED (this would mark the end of the "high" space available; the rest of the frame sits under the low hood).  At the very least, an 8 x 12mm "sugar cube" speaker should fit here, though you might need to build your own enclosure.  You'd also need to use an SMT LED to light the headlight if you did this.  A fuel tank mount might end up being simpler in this loco, though.  Either way is going to take a bit of frame milling work.

John C.

Edit - I just realized there are two different frame versions.  The newer one has light piping in the front for the ditch lights, so to put a speaker here, you'd have to cut the light piping and use an SMT LED to light it.  Not too much more work, and since the motor sits lower in this version, there appears to be plenty of vertical space for a speaker (after milling the frame).

[6axlepwr]

Thank you John for this information.

I went to the digikey sight and found this speaker. http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/2403%20260%2000086/423-1177-ND/3854658. Is this the correct Fox speaker you were suggesting?

I want to make sure I can get some before they are gone and get enough of them.

Brian

[jdcolombo]

Hi Brian.

Yep, that's the one I use in most of my installs.  You can also try a Zimo 8mm x 12mm "sugar cube" speaker.  I took a similar speaker (a Star Micronics, which I think is actually the speaker used by Zimo for its "sugar cube") and built an enclosure around it, then tested it against the Fox in an enclosure of similar depth.  The Fox was better, but the 8 x 12 did a very credible job, and could be used if you are space-challenged - in fact, I'm about to put one of these in a VO-1000 to test the limits of sound installations.

The video comparing the two speakers is available here:

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So I wouldn't be afraid to use the 8 x 12mm if that makes your life simpler.  Remember that with the Fox, you'll need 17mm of overall length (16mm for the speaker and an extra 1mm for the thickness of an .020 styrene enclosure).  The Zimo sugar cube saves 4mm of length.  If you use the Zimo, however, I'd throw away their "sound chamber" and build my own sealed enclosure around the speaker, or at the very least, use a gel CA to glue the sound chamber to the speaker to make it completely air tight.  You can get the Zimo 8x12 sugar cube at most places that sell sound decoders.  I'd probably get 10 of the Fox speakers while they are still available (Digikey has 1300 of them; even though they are going out of production on 1/1/2014, I don't think Digikey will simply throw away their remaining stock, so you'll probably be able to buy some until they run out; I just ordered 30 of them to have on hand, which should be more than enough to complete any future sound projects!), but I might suggest that you order one Zimo, too, just to compare for yourself (the Zimo is more expensive; most places sell it for about $10 with the "sound chamber" included).

John C.

[6axlepwr]

I ordered 50 of the Knowles Fox speakers at about $1.63 a piece. I will have more than I will ever use, but I will have them.

I have a mill so making tbe necessary precision cuts in tbe frame is not an issue. I will use the Loksound Select Micro decoder and maybe look at cutting my own special circuit board to handle all the needed connections.

Without having everything in hand right now, I was tninking that maybe put the decoder in the fuel tank area.  Cut a narrow channel up the side of the frame and bring the wires up to the PC board. Put the speaker ontop of the frame under the radiator fans. Build an LED box at the back for the rear light and one at the front for the front light. I am going to look at burying an LED behind the ditch lights so I can blink them when the horn blows. The PP board will hold the surface mount resistors for the LED lights.

I'll know better when I have all the parts in hand.

[jdcolombo]

I hadn't thought about mounting the decoder in the fuel tank area - that's a great solution if you've got enough length there (the LokSound will need about 26mm).

Please take photos of this installation if you can.  Would be great to see!

John C.

[6axlepwr]

I definitely will. Thank you John for all the great information.