Tragedy in Spain

[postman]

Postman:  Thank you!  And thanks for the link.  I don't read Spanish, but can puzzle out much of it, especially when I know what it's talking about.  A very odd arrangement.  I would have thought they'd put the diesel engine in the lead unit, like an FL9.  Dual voltage and diesel is probably also unique.

In a way it reminds me of the old MILW, with a lead electric controlling trailing diesel(s).  They usually used both at the same time, but I've read stories of running through work zones on only the diesels, pans down, but still controlled from the electric.

Apparently the train is dual gauge, which I knew some earlier Talgo versions were.  Are the locomotives also dual gauge, or do they have to be changed at gauge-change points?

I used Google Translate on the webpage and the translation was almost as confusing as trying to read the Spanish...

The locomotives are dual gauge .

[jagged ben]

There was a signal system which would have stopped the train automatically, BUT it ended about 5km before the spot where the train crashed.  It appears that this is also the spot where the high speed portion of the line ended, and the train was supposed to substantially slow down.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/in-aftermath-of-deadly-train-derailment-spanish-investigators-focus-on-speed-of-locomotive/2013/07/25/3d770452-f5a7-11e2-81fa-8e83b3864c36_story.html

This is of course completely speculative, but I wonder if the driver's negligence was to rely on the ERTMS as a safety net and let his attention wander.  Perhaps he even fell asleep.    And then he wasn't ready to slow the train down when it came time.

[ljudice]

This is of course completely speculative, but I wonder if the driver's negligence was to rely on the ERTMS as a safety net and let his attention wander.  Perhaps he even fell asleep.    And then he wasn't ready to slow the train down when it came time.

I was thinking the same thing...  It's almost incomprehensible that you could be that far out of operating speed and still be conscious. 

The other thing I noticed in the discussion on the European forum on Trainorders is that there has been a lot of questions about the design of the Talgo 730 trainsets in terms of "readiness" for a high speed derailment, because they are a very lightweight design - and some have suggested in the past that in a situation where you rollover an outside curve, the tilting mechanism would make a very serious situation in terms of rollovers.

Supposedly this near exact situation occurred on the NE Corridor in the early 1980's (I think) with a Metroliner set - but the very heavy underframe  of the Amfleet type cars kept the center of gravity low, although bags and people went flying.

[nkalanaga]

News reports today, quoting local residents who helped with the rescue efforts, say that the driver told them he had to slow down, and tried to slow down, but the train wouldn't slow.  In that case, it could be mechanical problems, rather than negligence. 

I wonder if this train, like many airliners today, is "drive by wire"?  If so, and the brakes are controlled by the computer, based on human commands, that could have implications far beyond Spain.  I think I'd just as soon have a mechanical brake controller that could simply dump the air, whether the computers liked it or not.

"The Spanish rail agency has said the brakes should have been applied four kilometers (2.5 miles) before the train hit the curve.

However, a local resident who rushed to the scene of the accident said in an interview broadcast Sunday that minutes after the crash Garzon had told him he had been going fast and couldn't brake.

The resident, Evaristo Iglesias, said he and another person accompanied the blood-soaked Garzon to flat ground where other injured people were being laid out, waiting for emergency services to arrive.

"He told us that he wanted to die," Iglesias told Antena 3 television. "He said he had needed to brake but couldn't," Iglesias said. He added that Garzon said "he had been going fast."

In its report about the accident, Antena 3 television showed a photograph of Iglesias in a pink shirt and cap helping to carry the driver after the train accident. The station also aired television footage of Iglesias working beside the wrecked train to help other survivors.

In the interview, Iglesias recalled Garzon's words, "'I don't want to see this, I want to die,' that's what he said repeatedly," said Iglesias. "'I had to brake down to 80 and couldn't,'" Iglesias quoted the driver as saying."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=206391758

[Ed Kapuscinski]

People were just complaining about US crash worthiness standards, and how they drive costs up, but this type of accident is exactly why they exist.

[trainforfun]

The gauge is not the same I guess everywhere in Spain , I saw it from far up in the hill between France and Spain , there was a place where they changed the gauge .
I found a video of how they do it , The video is in spanish but you can still understand watching the video . Specially toward the end . I think their usual gauge is 5' 6" .

[Philip H]

The gauge is not the same I guess everywhere in Spain , I saw it from far up in the hill between France and Spain , there was a place where they changed the gauge .
I found a video of how they do it , The video is in spanish but you can still understand watching the video . Specially toward the end . I think their usual gauge is 5' 6" .

/>

I;'ve been in that facility.  There are big hydraulic presses and pullers that move the wheels back and forth on their axles to cross the border.  It was cool as a kid to see.