AT&SF San Diego Sub

[davefoxx]

HAHAHA!!!  Awesome.  That's a good looking train, James, except that it needs more Conrail.   

DFF

[tappertrainman]

Wow, over 3 months since I last updated this thread.  Progress has been made, though at a slow pace.  One of the reasons for the slow pace is I have been working on a project that involves skills that do not seem to be my forte.  I enjoy weathering cars, but assembling buildings and kitbashing anything seems to not be my favorite skill.  However, I have been pressing forward on my first kitbashed/assembled building in N scale, a small fuel/gas tank that is not an online industry, but rather a scenic element with the backside facing the railroad.  This really isn't meant to be a masterpiece, but rather something that will just blend into the background in an industrial commercial zone.

Here is a photo of the industry assembled and painted.



And here are images of the industry with some (light?) weathering.





My personal critique:
The weathering on the railings is both overdone and underdone.  I can still see shiny parts of the plastic, and weirdly colored areas. (side note, I know the railings are crooked, I can't help that now and it wouldn't be worth the time to fix)
The concrete block wall looks good to me and I'm happy with the weathering there.
The tanks seem underweathered, and I will try my hand at some chalks to improve.  I'm modelling these tanks around 10 years old or so, I don't think they would be massively rusted.
More pipes and details will be added, and obviously I will need to fix the fit of the wall to the ground before planting it permanently.

Your comments, thoughts, and questions are welcome!

James

[tappertrainman]

It's been a long time since I've updated.  Work has progressed steadily but slowly, not living at the same place as the layout lives makes it hard to find time!  Hope you all find this update worth a look.


Work from a couple months ago involved building a small yard shack at the east end of the primary yard.  This is just to fill a little bit of the foreground space and suggest more activity off the layout.  The building still needs to be weathered and extra grass, details, etc. need to be added to the ground space outside of the building.




Reverse view of the same building, my new Sound+DCC equipped FP45 is in the background.



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Work this Saturday consisted of relaying the tracks leading to the enginehouse.  Previously the tracks were too short and angled in the wrong direction because of a lack of the correct Atlas Code 55 turnout.  Now that I have the correct turnout, we finished up this trackwork and glued everything down.




All of the current motive power is tied up on the enginehouse tracks at the moment.  Normal power consists during operations will be two locomotives, with the FP45 reserved exclusively for lead loco use.




Mocking up the Rix enginehouse, this will be a fairly simple affair, just a spot to park the local power, no major repair facilities are available here.




Closeup on the trackwork, the enginehouse tracks will be "buried" in styrene concrete, with heavy ballast/dirt leading up to the actual structure.  I used Floquil (ohhh, the Floquil high) Rust paint pens and an airbrush to paint and weather the tracks.  I will also add weathering powders once the tracks are ballasted to simulate grime and oils.




Hope you all enjoyed this look at my version of San Diego!

James

[GaryHinshaw]

Not sure how I missed this before, but what a fantatsic looking layout!  The trackwork in this last shot looks superb and the hilly scenery is really coming along nicely.   I'm not sure how you can stand not living in the same houseas your layout though...  Do you get many chances to operate it these days? 

Please keep the updates coming.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I have one thing to say about the engine house. If all you need is a place for engines to lay over, just do what the real railroads would do and leave it open. It's a better way to show off the collection, and something much less "model railroadey".

[Bsklarski]

Hafta agree with Ed, unless its an actual engine terminal, or repair point, nobody in the last 20 years uses an engine house that small unless its a 1 or 2 engine short line

[randgust]

Another one that just stumbled on this thread...

I really like what I'm seeing, it's first-rate modeling underway.   I also think you're focusing on what really matters - color, texture, density.... not ribs and rivets.   The scene evolution to photos is very, very good.

The scenery I have to do around Winslow is not unlike what you've got.   Similar problems with a rather faded color, low brush/sage, earth colors critical.

Many modelers get nervous using photo backdrops because it makes their foreground model work look bad by comparison.   I don't think you have that problem.   At this point, the 'blue' showing up between the distant hills is actually more distracting than a photo backdrop might be, and it looks like you have the skills and materials to do it.    If you just do the hills from photos - cut out the sky parts - to establish a distant hill line, I think you'd be surprised how good it might really look.   The bugger is always a printed sky, so just cut that off with an Xacto knive and paint the paper edge to match the hill color, looks great.

I'll also second the comment about enginehouses.   What 'looks like' an enginehouse (blue and white two-track pre-engineered structure) at Winslow from the air is actually a light car repair shop.  Power is always left outside.   Doesn't change the building much, just the purpose.  You can get dimensions from Google Earth on many of these now.  What you're building very closely resembles the car shop in Winslow.

You might also want to closely study fueling facilities; I've had a real ball with mine because ATSF changed the ones at Winslow about six times, both in hardware and location.   Lots of really nice detail, and the fuel jacks and sand towers from AMI are pretty darn close, all I had to add was a whole lot of overhead piping.  That's a good place to 'park' power pending use.

[tappertrainman]

Not sure how I missed this before, but what a fantatsic looking layout!  The trackwork in this last shot looks superb and the hilly scenery is really coming along nicely.   I'm not sure how you can stand not living in the same house as your layout though...  Do you get many chances to operate it these days? 

Please keep the updates coming.

High praise from the master of trackwork @GaryHinshaw !  It's hard not living at the same place, but frankly though my modeling time may be less, the urge to actually GET MODELLING DONE rather than play trains helps a bit to focus us on train work days.  My uncle only lives about 10-15 minutes away at most, so it's not too hard to find time to get over there.

Operation is actually something we haven't done yet, as that isn't my uncle's favorite thing to do.  He'd much rather construct a scene, then tear it down and do it over better, then tear that down and do it better again, etc....    I have to prod him to just move on sometimes and let it be "just okay" and proceed with getting the rest of the blue foam mountains covered up.  Getting JMRI set up for switch lists is something that is definitely in the plans, as I've operated on some local layouts before in the past and really enjoyed it.

I have one thing to say about the engine house. If all you need is a place for engines to lay over, just do what the real railroads would do and leave it open. It's a better way to show off the collection, and something much less "model railroadey".

Hmm, I get what you're saying.  Does the fact that the engine tracks even exist seem "model railroadey"?  In the early plans I had just intended on leaving motive power occupying one of the yard tracks, but the real thing has a lot more room than I do, so I decided to conserve the yard space for operations and storage as much as possible and add the loco tracks.

Hafta agree with Ed, unless its an actual engine terminal, or repair point, nobody in the last 20 years uses an engine house that small unless its a 1 or 2 engine short line

I see.  My era is late 80's to 1990, and Santa Fe was fully in control of San Diego (to my knowledge).  However, in modern times, what I'm modeling is typically serviced by a couple of shortline railroads, though they probably own more than 2 locomotives each.  I guess my mish-mash of prototypes and eras got me in trouble here with the enginehouse.  I really like @Ed Kapuscinski 's point about showing off the fleet so I may push my uncle to use the Rix buildings elsewhere.

Thank you for the comments, like @davefoxx says, Better Modeling Through Peer Pressure!

James

[C855B]

... Does the fact that the engine tracks even exist seem "model railroadey"? ...

Maybe in the context of 21st century railroading, but up until the most modern era, dedicated power storage tracks were the rule even in smaller yards or division points. If not specifically for sanding and fueling, or staging for it, you needed tracks easily accessible by servicing vehicles. Yard tracks usually were not, and if they were, it was the most outside track next to an access road.

[tappertrainman]

Another one that just stumbled on this thread...

I really like what I'm seeing, it's first-rate modeling underway.   I also think you're focusing on what really matters - color, texture, density.... not ribs and rivets.   The scene evolution to photos is very, very good.

The scenery I have to do around Winslow is not unlike what you've got.   Similar problems with a rather faded color, low brush/sage, earth colors critical.

Many modelers get nervous using photo backdrops because it makes their foreground model work look bad by comparison.   I don't think you have that problem.   At this point, the 'blue' showing up between the distant hills is actually more distracting than a photo backdrop might be, and it looks like you have the skills and materials to do it.    If you just do the hills from photos - cut out the sky parts - to establish a distant hill line, I think you'd be surprised how good it might really look.   The bugger is always a printed sky, so just cut that off with an Xacto knive and paint the paper edge to match the hill color, looks great.

I'll also second the comment about enginehouses.   What 'looks like' an enginehouse (blue and white two-track pre-engineered structure) at Winslow from the air is actually a light car repair shop.  Power is always left outside.   Doesn't change the building much, just the purpose.  You can get dimensions from Google Earth on many of these now.  What you're building very closely resembles the car shop in Winslow.

You might also want to closely study fueling facilities; I've had a real ball with mine because ATSF changed the ones at Winslow about six times, both in hardware and location.   Lots of really nice detail, and the fuel jacks and sand towers from AMI are pretty darn close, all I had to add was a whole lot of overhead piping.  That's a good place to 'park' power pending use.

Thanks @randgust !  I appreciate the comments from a fellow AT&SF modeler.  Am I understanding that you are in agreement with the others that the engine house is probably not the best way to go?  Instead, modelling the other service facility items that you mentioned and leaving the locos out in the open? 

I will definitely look into photo backdrops, and the stretching technique that @Cajonpassfan mentioned in another thread.  I actually have a few decent photos from the springtime where things are a little more green than our current drought-stricken hillsides and those might be useable for background photos.  Next time I'm over there I'll mock some up and see how they look!

Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions, it's very encouraging and makes me want to get back to work ASAP!

James

[randgust]

I don't know San Diego so I'll hedge big time and say 'I don't know'.

But as general ATSF practice, yeah, they are left outside and unless there's a backshop involved, rarely inside.  But that's why I mentioned the car shop, so that if you like the Rix building look, you still have a very valid reason to use it.

If you look again at this recent shot, the backdrop is done with photos mounted on a sky-blue Masonite backdrop with blended white-to-blue, no clouds, I don't have the talent.  But the distant trees, and the San Francisco Peaks - are all done from photos glued on it with the sky cut off.   I wanted 'dead accurate' color and perspective from this particular photo angle and compared real shots from the same place to get it.  I took the Peaks shot from that location when I was out there.

http://www.randgust.com/U36C%208714%20Flagstaff%20sm.jpg

A technique I used for the trees is using Photoshop for horizontal image flipping of a 'chunk' of scenery; i.e. simply reverse a photo horizontally and reprint it again.  That works for basic hills and trees, and your edges and colors always match up perfectly at edges.  You can make sheet after sheet after sheet of 'distant' backdrop using 8 1/2 x 11 paper and your own printer.   That's how the far distant trees are done in that shot.  I've got about five feet of scrub scenery east Winona right on the backdrop that sorta looks like your hills.

[tappertrainman]

Playing around with Google Maps, it's really interesting to see the Street View of this area.  Incidentally, this is almost exactly right where I'm modeling:

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8882381,-117.1907741,3a,75y,206.99h,85.6t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNrJHSB_rhoenazD7YF-_nA!2e0!5s20110401T000000!7i13312!8i6656   - April 2011

Even when I took photos with my DSLR in April of 2013 it still looked like this:




Close by:




Most recent Street View is May 2014.  No rain, but there is a train!  :/

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8882389,-117.1907847,3a,75y,206.99h,85.6t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sOwkjoIIywXpajN1tE6JBng!2e0!5s20140501T000000!7i13312!8i6656


This area is still easily accessible for photos, I will mock it up with what I have and go from there.  Perhaps I might need new photos, but the slight blurriness and haze may work in my favor for backdrop use...

James

[SandyEggoJake]

Hey James,

Was just over in that area today.  As one who lives here, what you are doing on the landscape looks great!  If I could offer any tips, you might wish to work in some more longer tan static grasses in places. 

When you get a chance, how about an updated track plan? 

I love your selection of Frost Hardware and Frazee Paint.  Both are classic San Diego institutions, even as Sherwin-Williams has now bought out the latter.  Next time in the area, you might stop in to Frost to see what they now deal with sawdust, which I suspect then now tip over at the landfill.  But at once upon a time this might have been an outbound load. 

I also like that you are squeezing in something to rep the recycling center right next door.  Lot of potential for types of colorful bulk outbound loads. 

If rethinking that engine house, you might consider a few more track side industries.  Doesn't go all the way back to you 80-90's era, but google earth gives you some hints of the industrial area west of the wye.  For example, 7693 Trade St (see tank cars in Jan 2011).  That spur once provide access to the quarries.  If you don't car about era, near that location today is a shiny new"tank farm" for Ballast Point Brewery.  There are at least four other craft brewers in that area too.  But I suspect none back in the 80's.  Unsure if any are using the sidings.  I just love their brew!

Finally,  the Pyramid on Miramar would be iconic to model and is about 200' from track side on Carrol.  Such a building might be "compressed" without it looking any more odd than it already does, and in doing so hiding some of the track on your back left to center side, creating more of an illusion of depth and a transition to your green space. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8826209,-117.1565915,3a,75y,92.57h,102.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTAshL5RBsartyqvaVNoAnQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

[Philip H]

So I'm  going to go contrarian here and say keep the engine shed as is - perhaps swapping in a car once in a while jus for operational variety. ATSF may well have left its stuff outside in reality but I like small compact diesel shops - the detailing possibilities are Substantial in number.

[lajmdlr]

James
Don't know what place your engine facilities are on your layout but the real Santa Fe only had them at the yard at Barstow or Redondo Junction yard (LA) & the San Diego yard w/ nothing in between. Looks like all your are 6 axles so they would be running Barstow to San Diego & back w/o much if any servicing needed. They carry enough fuel, sand, etc to make the round trip w/ no servicing required.
You can always use that building for an industry. 
The only switching done by road trains along this route is in Corona, Irvine/Tustin & Oceanside. At those places trains made setouts/pickups for local switch jobs. These days alot of the switching from Stewart Mesa to Mira Mar is done by a shortline RR.
Before proposed SPSF merger in 1985 it was called the 4th District. It became the San Diego sub during the merger talks. That's also when the red/yellow paint scheme came out. After the merger was disapproved everyone said SPSF stood for "Shouldn't Paint So Fast". LOL
Your Super Fleet #100 only existed from 8/3/89 to 5/13/90. After that till retirement it was #90. The very first #100 was a FT. The 2nd  #100 was a FP45 in the original Silver/red passenger scheme. The super fleet 100s were moved to the 90 class when the then new GP60ms came out in the 100 numbers. The GP60Bs were numbered in the 300s. Everyone thought they were going to always run as ABBA. They did at first but found out there was too much wheel slip because they were only 4 axles. After that they ran w/ their newer 6 axles. Nowadays GP60Ms are used as switchers.
You can find dates of all Santa Fe diesels here: http://atsfrr.com/resources/CrossetGene/ATSF_all-time%20diesel%20roster/index.htm