The Proto:87 Stores or fastracks?

[PRRS]

Ah..okay.  I take it they are just machined in that material then?

He has more options for turnouts than Fast Tracks...but I imagine the durability cannot compare to machined aluminum over time or heavy use.

[Dwight in Toronto]

I always enjoy immersing myself in Mr. Gilmore’s wonderfully descriptive and instructive tutorials, particularly turnout construction.  Thank you for the latest writeup Bob.

I’m nowhere near as competent in this area as others, but I dabbled in it just to gain rudimentary hands-on exposure to the tools, techniques and skill sets involved.  Here’s my two cents worth.

Since my endeavour was solely an experiment, I wanted to be as economical as possible.  So, it was paper templates right from the get-go.  The only materials I ordered from FastTracks were the pc ties, Pliobond, and a wonderful little file.

For the trial run, I stripped rail from Atlas flex track (salvaged from my dismantled layout), and the flex ties were put aside.  A #10 template was taped on a sheet of glass, and clear double-sided tape was used to affix the pc ties.  Frog and point rails etc were shaped on a 1” belt/5” disk benchtop sander (purchased for this experiment, at lower cost than a single FastTracks fixture or filing tool).

My first “skeleton” turned out better than I had anticipated.  To finish it off, I cut-&-trimmed various segments of ties from the salvaged flex base, and affixed them between the pc ties using Pliobond (and a brief application of solder iron heat to strengthen the bond).  Crude, yes, and nowhere near as refined nor presentable as the masterpieces I see here, but it made it look like a finished turnout.

Suitably encouraged, I went on to build a few more, including a four foot module consisting of 4 #10 turnouts in a double crossover configuration:





Apologies for the mediocre pics, but they enable me to expand upon how this was a multi-purpose module, in that it encompassed two additional new-to-me experimental techniques:

- first, I used copper tape as an “above grade” power buss.  Feeders were simply short jumpers soldered between rail and tape, covered with ballast

- second, I used small SPDT slide switches to throw the turnouts as well as power the frogs … much less costly than, say, Tortoise actuators and/or frog juicers

Suffice to say, the module ended up being a successful proof-of-concept demonstrating how all the wiring could be accomplished on the top-side (ie - no need to crawl underneath).

Would I incorporate these techniques if/when I build my next layout?  I don’t know … maybe in select locations.  Regardless, I had fun trying out some alternative concepts, and learned to build very affordable turnouts in the process.  As I said at the outset … my two cents worth!

[TinyTurner]

There really is a lot to take in here, I am really thankful that you have gone to such lengths to post all these details.
My original inspiration book is Ian rices 'A Pragmatic Guide to Building, Wiring and Laying PCB Track', but nothing beats asking the old hands how they do it.  Perhaps there could a be a 'Railwire track making sticky'?  Or even a bookazine or ebook?  I would buy it.
   
It's probably a sound idea to start with NMRA fine standards, until it all 'computes'.
It's also a bit more easy to access as standards in a group later on, as it would be nice to get something going together.   
I can't produce wheel sets yet, but will able to turn down eventually when the lathe is running. 

Adding more pcb ties for strength seems a good idea, especially as lower level staging tracks may be difficult to access when finished.
Maybe its worth asking the 2mm Asociation to source American sized PCB ties, as its already international affair, as in everyone who is a member here makes a case for it?

I tried messing with a miniature table saw, and after viewing a Fastracks video of their sawmill, it must be possible to make such a machine, but its a total diversion from actually Model railroading and a separate Model engineering exercise, I have to leave it for now.
Using hand shears for ties cutting is brilliant, but I have physical problems with subluxing joints. Maybe a large sheet metal cutting shear could be modified?
I rely on tools to do ordinary things others take for granted, which leads me to consider jigs and aids, as long as they work, even if the cost is initially high.
I think a No.6 jig would be ok, as it's the smallest used on the layout standards, and all the staging.  The others will have to be paper templates, but by then, I should be able. 

I would like to know if those Blue Ridge Trax templates are any good, as the price is right.  I'm quite open to other brands.  Do they have
the extra reinforcing slots for PCB ties, do they accept the Volts scooter PCB ties, and being plastic will they melt?

[robert3985]

@robert3985 would you care to elaborate [1]?   I'm building some stuff in Z scale and finding that gauges are basically non-existent, so that sort of info would be really helpful for me.

Also hoping you are feeling better soon.

Thanks,
Ed

[1] in another thread perhaps, rather than go too OT here

Ed @ednadolski , Thanks!  I'm feeling better today.  I've sent you an email with the MR article's illustrations on how to build their two track gauges with comments and a couple of links.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[nickelplate759]

I always enjoy immersing myself in Mr. Gilmore’s wonderfully descriptive and instructive tutorials, particularly turnout construction.  Thank you for the latest writeup Bob.

I’m nowhere near as competent in this area as others, but I dabbled in it just to gain rudimentary hands-on exposure to the tools, techniques and skill sets involved.  Here’s my two cents worth.

Since my endeavour was solely an experiment, I wanted to be as economical as possible.  So, it was paper templates right from the get-go.  The only materials I ordered from FastTracks were the pc ties, Pliobond, and a wonderful little file.

For the trial run, I stripped rail from Atlas flex track (salvaged from my dismantled layout), and the flex ties were put aside.  A #10 template was taped on a sheet of glass, and clear double-sided tape was used to affix the pc ties.  Frog and point rails etc were shaped on a 1” belt/5” disk benchtop sander (purchased for this experiment, at lower cost than a single FastTracks fixture or filing tool).

My first “skeleton” turned out better than I had anticipated.  To finish it off, I cut-&-trimmed various segments of ties from the salvaged flex base, and affixed them between the pc ties using Pliobond (and a brief application of solder iron heat to strengthen the bond).  Crude, yes, and nowhere near as refined nor presentable as the masterpieces I see here, but it made it look like a finished turnout.

Suitably encouraged, I went on to build a few more, including a four foot module consisting of 4 #10 turnouts in a double crossover configuration:

<pictures deleted>
Apologies for the mediocre pics, but they enable me to expand upon how this was a multi-purpose module, in that it encompassed two additional new-to-me experimental techniques:

- first, I used copper tape as an “above grade” power buss.  Feeders were simply short jumpers soldered between rail and tape, covered with ballast

- second, I used small SPDT slide switches to throw the turnouts as well as power the frogs … much less costly than, say, Tortoise actuators and/or frog juicers

Suffice to say, the module ended up being a successful proof-of-concept demonstrating how all the wiring could be accomplished on the top-side (ie - no need to crawl underneath).

Would I incorporate these techniques if/when I build my next layout?  I don’t know … maybe in select locations.  Regardless, I had fun trying out some alternative concepts, and learned to build very affordable turnouts in the process.  As I said at the outset … my two cents worth!

@Dwight in Toronto
Wish I could see better what you did.  Here are some questions:
1.  Are your points hinged?
2.  What machine did you get for your belt/disk sander?
3.  How did you guide that machine so that the ground angles are correct?

[Sumner]

.... Do they have
the extra reinforcing slots for PCB ties, do they accept the Volts scooter PCB ties, and being plastic will they melt?

I've built over 60 #6 turnouts with the Fast Track jigs and regardless of if you are using theirs or someone else's adding extra PCB ties is easy.  Just add them after you pull the turnout from the jig. I do it to all of the turnouts I make using a jig. 

I've got a few other items one can 3D print if they have a printer or have a print service make them.  The following work pretty good when gluing wood ties to turnouts made with Fast Track templates and at least the #6 jig (only one I have).  The spacing is close to what Fast Tracks uses.



The fixture above helps if you use their #6 turnout jig or template.   More info ( HERE )



The fixtures above are what I use the most for putting in ties for hand-laid straight turnouts.



 It goes really fast using them.  I also don't use Pliobond any more....hate it.   ( HERE )

I also have....



... those jigs up for curved turnouts that seem to work on about all that I've made from small radius to large radius. 



I use a fast CA and then an accelerator.   Info on the tie jigs and using CA ( HERE )

Also have...



.... jigs for soldering the frog rails.  ( HERE )

I've been making crossings which I find to be harder than turnouts and....



... one of the harder things to make were the diamonds shown above so have those that you can 3D print  ( HERE )

Lots of other trackwork related items that also help in track laying or in making your turnouts  ( HERE )

Sumner

[Dwight in Toronto]

@nickelplate759  -  as I said, apologies for the crappy pics.

Here’s a photo of the small bench-top sander.  It was on clearance at a local Princess Auto for $60 (pretty much a Canadian equivalent to Harbour Freight in the US):



It has the added benefit of being useful for other things as well … it can sand and shape styrene in very short order.  I’ve also used it several times to “mill” N scale loco frames (Atlas, Kato) to accomodate sugar cube speakers.  And then there are the mundane woodworking applications as well, so it’s certainly been a versatile addition to the workbench.

The vertical unit uses 1”x30” belts; I think I was using something like 300 grit to shape the various rail segments.  If you look closely at the pic, I clamped a sacrificial piece of PVC to the sanding table, so as to provide a flat surface, as close as possible, snugged right up against the belt face.  I then just “winged it” as far as sanding the various angles on the rail pieces for the frogs, point rails etc.  I used various metal edges, such as a small scraper, to press on the rail and keep it from flexing (and to keep fingers away).

All the turnouts I’ve constructed to date are #10’s, and they have not needed hinged point rails.

Thanks for the interest; hope that helps.

[jdcolombo]

FWIW:

1.  Agree w/Bob completely on use of additional PCB ties; use of 96/4 solder; and use of the Supersafe flux.

2.  While I also agree that a jig is unnecessary once you have made a few (half-dozen?) turnouts and understand the techniques, for someone who is just starting out, a FastTracks jig and their Point Form tool really help get you going.  Buy a jig for the turnout size you will use the most; make some using the jig.  Then if you feel comfortable with just paper templates, try that.  If you really think you don't need the jig anymore, sell it.  FastTracks jigs are easily sold.

3.  I have never used hinged points, even on the three #4 turnouts on my layout (made with Atlas Code 55 rail).  These #4's have been on the layout now for over five years and are regularly thrown with Tortoise machines several times in each operating session because they are part of an industrial switching scene.  Maybe it's Bob's solder recommendation, or just luck, but I have had no issues with the points separating from the throwbar even on these short switches.  Ditto with the #6's I use (also thrown many times in an op session).  Beyond number 6, I just don't think you are stressing the rail/throwbar joint enough to worry.  Worry about proper soldering of that joint instead.  If it is well-soldered, I just don't think you'll have issues.

4.  If you balk at the cost of PC ties, you can make your own from single-sided PC board from Digikey or Mouser Electronics.  See the earlier post someone did about rolling their own. 

5.  I unfortunately bought 80 Atlas Code 55 switches to build my current layout, and turned to hand-laying only during the great Atlas Code 55 Track Drought of several years ago in order to complete my trackwork.  I now wish I had zero Atlas switches on my layout, and had made all of them by hand.  I am a stickler (some would say "crazy") about operations; nothing must stall; nothing must bump, jump, wobble, etc.  No one should be able to tell they are operating an N scale layout instead of an HO or even an O one because of operational issues.  The hand-made switches I have are so much better operationally than the Atlas factory switches that I nearly want to cry every time I run the layout.  No, I'm not going to pull up 80 switches and replace all of them with hand-made ones, though when an Atlas switch fails (not uncommon, BTW), I replace it with a hand-made one.  But if I ever do another layout (not likely) or a significant addition to the current one (possible), it will be with all hand-made turnouts. 

[Jimbo]

By they way...anyone ever use Blue Ridge Turnout jigs?  They are half the cost of Fast Tracks...but they are resin/3D printed:

https://www.blueridgetrax.com/

I have purchased one.  Would not recommend.  LONG story; to the owner’s credit, he tried repeatedly to get me a product that was acceptable.  Each time, a new issue presented itself. In the end, I just gave up and bought a Fast Tracks fixture.

Jim

[Sokramiketes]

I had to send back the last Fastracks jigs I ordered. One didn’t fit the rail and one didn’t have tie pockets deep enough to let the rail hit the alignment slots.

They did offer to remake them, but I wasn’t as intrigued anymore. Back to paper templates.

[Angus Shops]

I decided to settle with #7 turnouts as ‘standard’ on my layout, with #6’s for industrial settings and a few locations where #7’s took up to much area, and #9’s for mainline to passing siding locations. I purchased a Fastracks jig, along with the point rail and frog rail filing tools for the #7’s (maybe 70 of these) and used paper templates for the #6’s and 9’s (around 20 6’s and 10 9’s). I used the filing tools for the #6 and 9 parts with some changes in set-up and technique to suit.

I agree completely with the comments about adding extra PCB ties that others have noted, and simply added them after the basic turnout was removed from the jig. Other than this I found the Fastracks jig to be very easy to use, but I also had no problem with the using paper templates. The only problem I’ve had with the Fastracks jig is the the gap between the the point rail and the stock rail is too fine as they are come out of the jig - it looks really nice but they seem to pick the trucks of my Atlas GP 7 and 9’s  - no other brands or even other Atlas locos, just the GP 7 and 9’s. And you can be sure I’ve checked and rechecked the gauge of the wheelset - it’s the weirdest thing. I’ve surrendered on this problem and resorted resoldering the point rails to allow just a hair wider spacing and this completely solves the problem.

I do not use hinged points and I go with the basic soldered connection between the point rail and the throw bar - I fully admit to the occasional failure in these joints - maybe once or twice per year, but the repair doesn’t take much longer than the time needed for my little 12 watt soldering iron to heat up. I fully recognize that other techniques are probably superior but the level of fabrication skill required is beyond my level.

I started ‘hand laying’ turnouts because I wasn’t able or willing to part with the cash to purchase what, at the time, I saw as the unreliable and toylike commercial alternatives. The Railcraft and later Micro Engineering track looked so much superior to any of the manufactured turnouts available then (and even now) and I wanted my trackwork to be as much part of the “well modelled scene” as the locos and rolling stock and scenery of the rest of my layout. At this point in my model railroading career I’m pretty pleased with my good looking, smooth operating, low cost, and reliable trackwork.

[garethashenden]

Maybe its worth asking the 2mm Asociation to source American sized PCB ties, as its already international affair, as in everyone who is a member here makes a case for it?

1-026 from Shop 1 is good for turnout ties. That is sold for narrow gauge turnouts. Unfortunately the narrow gauge plain sleepers are too short to be 1:160 standard gauge ties. The scale difference isn't the actual problem here, its much more to do with prototype practice where the British have bigger ties spaced further apart.

[TinyTurner]

Will have to check the association PCB ties... I seem to remember them not being quite right.
*edit* 0.1mm under width. close enough 
Is there a known brand of correct size plastic strip to cut ties to length, Evergreen, Slaters?
I don't fancy cutting tiny strips off a great sheet, they tend to curl.
Could buy in bulk, rack them up and cut a load at once with 'the chopper'.

[pedro]

Will have to check the association PCB ties... I seem to remember them not being quite right.
Is there a known brand of correct size plastic strip to cut ties to length, Evergreen, Slaters?
I don't fancy cutting tiny strips off a great sheet, they tend to curl.
Could buy in bulk, rack them up and cut a load at once with 'the chopper'.

.040”x.060” matches up nicely to both ME flex track ties and the Fasttracks components. Evergreen strips are available in bulk direct for a considerable savings.

[TinyTurner]

Yes! Evergreen strips, nice.  Now to find best price in bulk.
Thanks for looking, solutions are not always obvious   

With shipping:
an equivalent to Fastracks 10000 pack, works out to
Without shipping, Wood: 2 penny a tie.
With shipping, Styrene: 1.5 penny a tie.

It's likely different where you are.
Evergreen stocks are low,  must be somewhere to get a deal.
To think, this is the kind of economics it took to build 1:1 lines!

The only one missing is economical standard PCB ties in bulk.  Other than the Association, I wonder who could make these, dare I say, a Chinese factory?

A PCB shear is a lot:  https://www.fortex.co.uk/product-category/metal-shears-guillotines/