Do you guys prefer HOn30 or HOn3, and why?

[Dave V]

Actually, @Another modeler , I agree with all your points.

I would love to promote HOn3 to the extent I used to be a cheerleader for N, but it does have its drawbacks...cost being the main one. It's about on par now with Sn3 and On3, whereas it used to be considerably less expensive. If I had to start right now with zero trains, I would honestly probably start in On30. Or go back to doing Pennsy mainline stuff but in HO. Both options are far less expensive than HOn3. I had dabbled quite a bit in HOn3 as a teenager late 80s/early 90s) and was fortunate when I returned to HOn3 in 2016 that Blackstone was still widely available on the secondary market for well below MSRP. I bought what I suspect was my last $400 Blackstone (D&RGW C-19 #343) and the National Narrow Gauge Convention last fall. I just spent $600 on K-27 #452...I hated doing so but I needed 452 as it was leased to the RGS almost continuously from the early 40s until 1951.

Good running brass in Hon3 will cost you, and by the time it's painted with DCC and sound, you're starting to approach (or exceed) four figures.

Yeah, HOn30 is a lot more flexible both in terms of prototype (or fantasy) and your budget compared to HOn3 as it exists now. No argument from me!

[Another modeler]

Thank you so much @Dave V! Now then I may want to play a little devil's advocate so to speak but the thing is with HOn3 many of the reasons why I tend to prefer HOn30 are its greatest strengths to those that enjoy it. Its adherence to prototypicality yields jaw-dropping work such as yours(Dave V that is), its rigidity easily defines what it is and what to do, and as with all narrow gauge modeling the scratch building means that any prototype can be represented the only limits being the modelers will. Beyond that, the history of HOn3 also is one of brass models, many of which with superb detail as well. The fact is to conclude on my original thoughts now that they have been completed, the fact is that the narrow gauge is one of a myriad of prototypes obscure and well known ready to model, and even then freelancing or expanding on history by making a line last longer is also just as much the standard what it is to do is dependent on the modelers will. I may have overstayed my welcome on the soap box, but so be it, narrow gauge is truly just neat and spurs on my thoughts.

[dcarrell8]

So many great points in all the above comments.

For me it was all about the prototype.  I love the D&RGW K-Series locomotives so it had to be HOn3.  There is something about the small drivers and low center of gravity.  They just look more mechanical than almost any other loco IMHO.  I'm now a reformed N-Scaler, all it took was one trip on the Durango & Silverton and I was hooked.

If I were to start again today, I would be very tempted to go with On30, and I also love the idea of On18.  I have way too much railroad to build to jump off into a side project though!

[Beezow Doo-Doo]

That is a good point, honestly. Despite the fact that I'm gonna do HOn30, it's still nice to hear both sides of the argument. Also, with the release of the new Toma forneys, it almost feels like destiny for me.

[Dave V]

That is a good point, honestly. Despite the fact that I'm gonna do HOn30, it's still nice to hear both sides of the argument. Also, with the release of the new Toma forneys, it almost feels like destiny for me.

Those are great. I've seen one in person on an HOn30 Monson layout and they're amazing.

[Chris333]

Those are great. I've seen one in person on an HOn30 Monson layout and they're amazing.

Sam's layout?

[Dave V]

Sam's layout?

Yep. He lives here in the Springs. He was a cadet while I was still on the Academy faculty...small world!

[sbrenner]

I met Dave (Lt Col Vollmer) while presenting a remote sensing project about mapping the EBT, naturally anyone under 65 with a train poster caught his eye. I still remember he pointed out that I had spelled something wrong and we chatted about trains for a while. On a separate note, I cannot recommend HOn30 enough! Toma Model Works has really made the scale accessible with relatively inexpensive smooth running locomotives and great customer service. Pretty much all of my HOn30 Brass is now just for display and I'm planning another layout after I move! As far as rolling stock goes, Mt Blue models make some great kits and Ray Pershing at Railroad Memories of Maine is doing some great things with 3D printing. Its still very much a builders scale since there isn't much ready to run and you certainly need to have a bit of experience or be willing to make mistakes. But, I greatly enjoy it and won't be switch to anything else! If you have questions let me know, although Chris333 is probably a better resource than I am!

[Chris333]

Hey welcome!

This is not my map, but the EBT: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?msa=0&mid=1PEAAUGvPNSgHD85Z8LD2Cn6n1gI&ll=40.2418233535705%2C-77.96260999999998&z=10

I'll see Darryl in about a month and will try to pry a Monson combine kit out of his hands... 

[sbrenner]

Thanks! I got a "pre production" kit a few months ago but have yet to build it. Between the Toma locomotives, Mt Blue Kits and Ray's kits I've been lured to the SR&RL. I still enjoy my Monson Stuff and will probably build a Monson micro layout in the future!

[JeffB]

Thanks! I got a "pre production" kit a few months ago but have yet to build it. Between the Toma locomotives, Mt Blue Kits and Ray's kits I've been lured to the SR&RL. I still enjoy my Monson Stuff and will probably build a Monson micro layout in the future!

Have you torn down the Monson layout Sam?  Shame to see it go, but I get it.  Your modeling and Code 40 handlaid track are downright impressive.  Can't say I've seen it's equal in HOn30 in a long time!

Jeff

[JeffB]

If you have to do HO...

HOn30 is great if you don't mind building a lot of what you need and having a high standard for operation will require hand building track.

HOn3 is great if you have deep pockets, hunting down and buying all the best running brass or Blackstone locomotives will get expensive fast.

I gone to Sn2, which is S scale Maine prototypes on HOn3 track, using HOn3 wheelsets for the rolling stock trucks.  Definitely a scratchbuilder's scale/gauge combination, but there are kits and brass locomotives available, but you have to tinker with them. 

Jeff

[sbrenner]

Thanks Jeff! The layout still standing for now, its part of a layout tour next weekend and they I'll start taking it down. I will be hand laying Code 40 again on the next layout and hopefully I can get it to run even smoother than this one does. I think I'll have to stick with portable layouts until I get out of the military. I thought we'd be in Colorado for a lot longer and got a little bit over zealous with the current one. It will be sad to take it down but it was a great learning experience and I learned a lot building it.

[Dave V]

If you have to do HO...

HOn30 is great if you don't mind building a lot of what you need and having a high standard for operation will require hand building track.

HOn3 is great if you have deep pockets, hunting down and buying all the best running brass or Blackstone locomotives will get expensive fast.

I gone to Sn2, which is S scale Maine prototypes on HOn3 track, using HOn3 wheelsets for the rolling stock trucks.  Definitely a scratchbuilder's scale/gauge combination, but there are kits and brass locomotives available, but you have to tinker with them. 

Jeff

So FWIW, there are still tons of craftsman kits in HOn3 around at the same relatively low prices. I can still get Rail Line boxcar kits for 10 bucks (not including trucks, couplers, and decals of course!) and LaBelle is still in business cranking out wood kits. MRGS took up the old E&B valley line and Grandt Line kits are now produced by San Juan Models. Precision Scale kits are also still out there.

At least on my HOn3 layout, when it comes to rolling stock...for every RTR car that fell out of a box, there's another car that I took many hours to build with individually-bent grab irons and full brake rigging (I don't know why, but full, accurate brake rigging is one of my fetishes).

But your point with respect to locomotives is taken, and I agree fully. It's brass or Blackstone, and both require deep, deep pockets. There really aren't any kitbashing options from inexpensive mechanisms in HOn3.

[JeffB]

So FWIW, there are still tons of craftsman kits in HOn3 around at the same relatively low prices. I can still get Rail Line boxcar kits for 10 bucks (not including trucks, couplers, and decals of course!) and LaBelle is still in business cranking out wood kits. MRGS took up the old E&B valley line and Grandt Line kits are now produced by San Juan Models. Precision Scale kits are also still out there.

At least on my HOn3 layout, when it comes to rolling stock...for every RTR car that fell out of a box, there's another car that I took many hours to build with individually-bent grab irons and full brake rigging (I don't know why, but full, accurate brake rigging is one of my fetishes).

But your point with respect to locomotives is taken, and I agree fully. It's brass or Blackstone, and both require deep, deep pockets. There really aren't any kitbashing options from inexpensive mechanisms in HOn3.

Thanks for the additional and important details Dave...  But yeah, I was referring more to the locomotive end of it.  Might also apply to track if you want Micro Engineering HOn3 turnouts.  They're apparently very hard to come by now days.  I have a bunch that I need to put up on eBay, as I decided to go with hand laid for my Sn2 modules.

Jeff