ESU Diesel Sound Files: Turning a Non-HEP File into a HEP File?

[tehachapifan]

I've played around with this in the past before V5 files came along. At that time, I thought one could mimic HEP by simply hitting the "run 8" key, however this was then defeated if the dynamic brakes were activated. Now with the ability to further edit V5 files, I'm curious if this can be done with better success. Has anyone tried this?

Incidentally, the reason I'm interested in this is because Santa brought me an N Atlas 8-32BWH, but I find the prime mover sound in that sound file is, well, just not that good. So, I'm going to try a 16-cylinder file that sounds close enough to the 12-7FDL. I've already imported the "whoop" compressor from the 8-32BWH file and an Amtrak-appropriate horn pack.

[kiwi_bnsf]

Hi @tehachapifan

I'm not sure what ESU Sound File Atlas are using with the new Gold series Dash 8s, but the S0833 file listed on the ESU site is designed for the Dash 8-32BWH.

It includes a HEP mode that only functions when engaged at Idle (i.e. zero speed) by pressing F26 (note that the F28 manual notching function needs to be disabled). F26 uses SHIFT2 to move the prime mover into HEP mode — which causes a throttle up to Notch 8 regardless of subsequent speed. Once in HEP mode is engage you can press F27 to switch to standby mode which reduces the RPM (this only works at zero speed and simulates the station stop mode).

Once in HEP mode, the dynamic brake has no effect on the engine notch, but should still trigger the Dynamic Brake Sound via SHIFT1 and share1=37


Here is the info from the ESU S0833 file:

The Dash 8-32BWH operates in a diesel-electric configuration that uses DC to power the traction motors, producing 3,200 hp (2,400 kW) at 1047 rpm. When providing head end power to the train, the engine is speed locked to 900 rpm. Power output to the traction motors is 2,700 hp (2,000 kW) when running in HEP mode with a 0 kW HEP load. Traction horsepower decreases to a bare minimum of 1,685 hp (1,257 kW) when providing the maximum 800 kW (1,100 hp) HEP load to the train.

This file has a Special feature providing the sounds and operation of the Head End Power unit. This is used on the prototype loco to provide electricity to the coaches as these locos are almost always used in passenger service.

To engage HEP you must be stopped in Idle. Pressing F26 (Shift 2) will engage the HEP unit and allow the prime mover to run at a higher RPM.

When in stations often the engineer will go into Standby mode to preserve fuel and to allow the noise levels to come down a little. Pressing F27 on the throttle once HEP has already been engaged will allow the prime mover to come down a little. Again this can only be done while sitting still as on the prototype there is not enough RPM to provide power to the coaches and traction motors at the same time in Standy Mode.

In terms of the prime mover sound for a Dash 8, I prefer ESU Sound File S0719 as this has a more "throaty" 7FDL16 sound, but this is not technically correct for a Dash 8-32BWH (which is 12 cylinder). If you prefer the sound of S0719, then it would be possible to implement your own HEP mode with a bit of work. You just need to add SHIFT2 mode logic to progress the prime mover up to Notch 8 and then trigger this via a Function mapping (this would require removing the Manual Notching sound flows — you can just delete those via the LokProgammer editor). Let me know if you need any additional info on how to achieve that.

Hope that this helps.

[tehachapifan]

Thanks for the reply, Tim!

Unfortunately, sound file S0833 is the same as the stock sound file and the quality of that file is underwhelming to say the least. Lacks that throaty chug that you mentioned and has a lot of annoying background white noise.

I found a file that I like (S0747) which, to me, sounds kind of like a 12-7FDL and is nice and throaty when throttling up. It also has an automatic low/high idle, but the volume is really low when idling (till trying to decide if I like that). I have imported a "whoop" compressor and appropriate horn pack, as this file is for an older 7FDL Loco (B39-8, C39-8).
 
I had already successfully gotten the prime mover to throttle up to a HEP-like mode with Shift Mode 2 in the Logical Functions column, but I can't get the dynamic brake fan sound to fire up when in that mode for some reason. I created an additional F4 line for when the loco is not in HEP mode and that one seems to work fine.

In the LokProgrammer, my two F4 lines and my F5 line read as follows (note, I remapped Shift Mode 2 to F5 as I don't have an F26 key on my throttle):

Conditions                                              Physical Outputs                                     Logical Functions                                        Sounds

F4, Not F5                                                                                                           Shift Mode 1, Brake 3                                  C39-8 Dynamic Brake Fan

F4                                                                                                                                                                                        C39-8 Dynamic Brake Fan

F5                                                                                                                       Shift Mode 2

The first F4 line makes everything work as normal when not in HEP mode. I really thought the second F4 line with only the dynamic brake sound in it would work when F5 (HEP) was activated, but it doesn't. Ideas? I even tried this in the second F4 column...

F4, F5                                                                                                                 Brake 3 (what does this do anyway?)             C39-8 Dynamic Brake Fan

Seems like I'm close but am missing something. Could you expand on the Share1=37 point?

Also, for clarification, I want to be able to get the dynamic brake fan to come on without the prime mover coming out of notch 8 (HEP).

Thanks!

[kiwi_bnsf]

Okay, so I've just had a look at the S0747 file, and it's quite different in that it doesn't actually have an explicit HEP mode in the prime mover sound slot. SHIFT2 triggers what is actually "AutoRun8" in the sound flow. This does the same thing as HEP in that it throttles up to Run8, but it does not have any other HEP logic.

In its stock config, SHIFT1 dynamic brake causes AutoRun8 mode to exit, and the prime mover to throttle down to idle and then enter Dynamic Brake. I can see that you have successfully avoided this by using the NOT F5 condition.

However, the reason that the Dynamic Brake still doesn't play is because this is conditional on either share1=41 (which is set by the prime mover when entering the Dynamic Brake sound flow triggered by SHIFT1) or share1=37 (triggered by the HEP mode — which is the case of this sound file does not exist).

When in AutoRun8 mode, share1=38. So you need to change the sound flow in the C39-8 Dynamic Brake sound to use share1=38 as the entry condition for the HEP mode (not share1=37 as the stock file has). Just double-click the arrow and edit the Condition to Share1=38 and then save and re-apply the sound file to the decoder.

This is clearly a bug — ESU have copied the Dynamic Brake across from a file that has HEP logic that sets share1=37, and then forgotten to amend it to share1=38 to support the AutoRun8 mode.

I hope that helps you fix it. If not, I can edit the C39-8 Dynamic Brake template and send you a copy.


Stepping back, there is a lot of complexity within the stock ESU sound files. Depending on their age, you can see ESU changing their conventions for how they implement features, and the documentation within the files is not always correct. Generally I end up spending a lot of time using the LokProgrammer simulator to understand how the share and shift modes are implemented for a given project. The most frustrating aspect of this process is that there is no way to simulate interactions between sound slots, so an issue like this one is very hard to debug.

[kiwi_bnsf]

It also has an automatic low/high idle, but the volume is really low when idling (till trying to decide if I like that).

If you end up settling on this file, and want to increase the relative volume of Idle, then you can fix this — you just need some patience.

You can select all the sound containers in the prime mover slot and reduce their volume from 128/128 to something like 96 or 72. You can then increase the volume of the idle modes to what sounds right to your ears (this requires re-writing the sound file to the decoder a few times to verify). Once you have this to your liking, you just need to adjust the flows to and from idle to increment the volume between the values in equal steps (e.g. 128 > 120 > 112 > 108 > 100) to avoid a big step change. This is essentially what ESU are doing with their "remastered" sound files with "Dynamic Volume".

It's time consuming, but I have used this technique to manage excessively loud or quiet idle modes to be more closely matched across different loco types. Otherwise the ESU EMDs are too loud, and the GEs are too quiet.

[tehachapifan]

I've played around with volumes using the slider bars next to the WAV files. Is this what you mean or something else?

Also, I tried changing to share1=38 and nothing seems to have changed.

[kiwi_bnsf]

I've played around with volumes using the slider bars next to the WAV files. Is this what you mean or something else?

No, you need to click on the Container or State boxes in the sound flow, and then you can edit the Min and Max values under the Volume section on the left-hand side of the interface. 128/128 is max volume. I edit every sound Container/State box down to a lower "floor" volume of 90/90 and then that gives you the option to raise certain sections of the sound flow up to a higher relative volume.

It requires a bit of patience as you need to select the Container/State boxes by hand (Select All doesn't help because it selects the Transitions too).

Hope that makes more sense!

Also, I tried changing to share1=38 and nothing seems to have changed.

Sorry, looking at your logic again you will also need to to remove all the SHIFT1 conditions from the C39-8 Dynamic Brake Sound slot (because you are suppressing SHIFT1 behaviour with your NOT function map). Once the S1 conditions are removed from the Dynamic Brake Sound Slot, you should have a straight Function-only Dynamic Brake that ignores S1 and only triggers when the Prime Mover is at share1=41 (Dynamic Brake) or share1=38 (AutoRun8).

If that's still confusing, shoot me a PM and I can send you an edited ESU Project or examine your one more closely.

Cheers

[tehachapifan]

....Sorry, looking at your logic again you will also need to to remove all the SHIFT1 conditions from the C39-8 Dynamic Brake Sound slot (because you are suppressing SHIFT1 behaviour with your NOT function map). Once the S1 conditions are removed from the Dynamic Brake Sound Slot, you should have a straight Function-only Dynamic Brake that ignores S1 and only triggers when the Prime Mover is at share1=41 (Dynamic Brake) or share1=38 (AutoRun8).

If that's still confusing, shoot me a PM and I can send you an edited ESU Project or examine your one more closely.

Cheers

Yes, I've tried removing SHIFT1 and, when I do so, the dynamic brakes just won't fire. Seems that they are still tied to SHIFT1 somehow.

[kiwi_bnsf]

Okay, so I've made you a custom version of the S0747 C39-8 Dynamic Brake that includes two modes:

1. With Function and SHIFT1 active and the Prime Mover in Dynamics (share1=41), then play the dynamic sound.

2. With Function and SHIFT1 not active, and the Prime Mover in AutoRun8 (share1=38) then play the dynamic sound.

Dynamics will exit if the function is no longer active, speed reaches zero, or the prime mover exits either Dynamic Brake or AutoRun8.




Unfortunately I cannot test this in a decoder, but it works great via the LokProgrammer Simulator.

You can download my revised Template file here:  https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/s7qrc6vdpe3tvobchmqjs/BLW-C39-8-Dynamic-Brake-Fan-1.esut?rlkey=lqd4s1q9j0pyq2s1ysb25ghp6&dl=0

You just need to move the .esut file into your templates folder, and import it into the slot over the top of the current C39-8 Dynamic Brake.

Cheers

[tehachapifan]

Awesome! Thanks!!

Unfortunately, I'm now going to need some tutoring on how to get to the point where I can copy this for pasting.

I got Dropbox but I can't seem to view the file (it asks what program to view it in but everything just scrambles it).

[kiwi_bnsf]

You don’t need DropBox, you should just be able to paste that link into a browser and click on the option to download it.

Once downloaded, move it into your LokProgrammer Templates folder.

Open your sound file, choose Sounds, then select the sound slot and use the arrows to import it from the Templates folder.

[peteski]

I got Dropbox but I can't seem to view the file (it asks what program to view it in but everything just scrambles it).

At that point, instead of finding a program to open the file  you should also see an option to save the file on your computer.  You don't want to view it.

[tehachapifan]

Thanks to Tim's patience with my steep learning curve, I finally got the new dynamic brake file loaded correctly and now the dynamic brakes come on with HEP perfectly!

[kiwi_bnsf]

Thanks to Tim's patience with my steep learning curve, I finally got the new dynamic brake file loaded correctly and now the dynamic brakes come on with HEP perfectly!

Glad you got it loaded and working!

The best thing is that now you are armed with more knowledge on how to move sound slots to and from your Teamplates folder, which is very handy for re-using customised or favourite sounds across projects. Just be sure to back up your Templates folder — as it's easy to sink in many hours tinkering with sounds

The side benefit for me has been learning more about how ESU implements HEP (or not as the case may be). I'm also embarking on customising the same S0747 sound file for my own Dash 8-40BWs 

[tehachapifan]

Glad you got something out of this too! I agree that it is nice to develop increased knowledge on how to customize these sound files. I feel like I, personally, have only scratched the surface on what can be accomplished.

Now I need to dive into what you said about trying to get the low idle volume bumped up a little bit. I like that it has a lower volume than the other notches, but the volume is a bit too low for my liking.

I do like that ESU is coming out with a feature where you can choose between high and low volume for idle with their latest updates, I definitely have some locos that idle way too loud. Unfortunately, the bulk of my fleet is outfitted with pre-V5 sound decoders, so this is only going to help with some.

Some other things I would like to learn how to do (If it's even possible) is:

1. In sound files that have an automatic high/low idle where the high idle also gets triggered by the compressor, this compressor trigger can get defeated if you import a different compressor. How can this be overcome so the new compressor also triggers the higher idle?

2. Can a prime mover be set up so the sound only throttles up to a certain speed step setting? The V5 P42 file prime mover sound only goes up to speed step 2 or 3 through the when not in HEP, which I'm told is prototypical(?). I suppose his could be useful for other sound files as well.

3. How to make and import custom sounds, such as a horn.